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Discussion Starter #1
X5 vs. MDX 2001 model year recalls:

You can look up the safety recalls that have occurred for both vehicles (model year 2001) listed at the NHTSA web site ( http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/central2.cfm ). Whilst the MDX has had no safety recalls, the list of safety recalls for the X5 is so long that the web page reads, "Due to the large number of records returned from the Recalls database, we did not display Defect Summary, Consequence Summary and Corrective Summary description."

In 1989 I purchased a new 735 iL which I owned for 5 years. I had more problems with that car than with all the other vehicles that I have ever owned over the years combined - and I've owned Ford. So I'm not at all surprised by the long list of recalls for the X5; reminds me of the cliche "the more things change the more they say the same".
:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
And there's more ...

Again, from the NHTSA web site, this time under "consumer complaints database", the X5 has 19 listed problems, whilst the MDX has only 1 (2001 model year). The link is: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/index.cfm


Then select "vehicle" and go from there.
 

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Ok. were you the child seat problem or the lost all power problem???

'cause I have noticed that the child seats have a little more play than I'd like to see, although the rear teather help out alot.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't currently own a BMW product (probably never will again), and I am having no problem with my MDX.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
BMW and its X5

... and thank you for your link MDXLuvr - it was very revealing.

Since 1989, shortly after I purchased my 735 iL new, I realized that BMW was an abbreviation for Bring a Mechanic With you. Now with the X5 fires, you also have to bring a fireman with you. Or maybe X5 owners need to live next door to a fire station... hmmm. BMW should sell a fire extinguisher and an asbestos suit as options for the X-5.

The sad thing is that many people who purchase a BMW vehicle do so with the mistaken belief that these vehicles are safer because they have additional air bags and traction control which the MDX doesn't have, when in fact the X5 is much less safe than the MDX.

Not only does BMW make very unreliable vehicles, but the service that I received from both dealerships that are located in Alberta (the only 2 in the province) was horrible. People complain about Acura service - and I've read the posts - but the service that I got from BMW was very much worse. Here's just one example (a mere teaser for you). I came in for an oil and filter change at the BMW dealership in Edmonton. The dealer in Calgary was so bad that I didn't want to return so I got the oil changed in Edmonton. A few days later, I went on a drive to Spokane. Once I got to Spokane, the car ( 1989 BMW 735 iL) indicated an oil pressure problem so I pulled over and checked the oil level only to discover that the oil was about 4-5 inches over the "full" level. I went to a nearby Ford dealership since the BMW dealership was closed on Saturday. They got me in right away and drained out an estimated 4 quarts of oil! Those guys at the BMW dealership in Edmonton changed my oil then forgot about it and put in another 4 quarts, and sent me on my way without so much as checking the oil level! How's that for service? And that was just a sample of the poor service that I received on that $83,500 Canadian (list price) BMW vehicle. I wrote a 3 page-long letter to BMW about the mechanical and electrical problems that I had with the vehicle, but they didn't even bother to respond! Crappy service and an expensive unreliable vehicle is not a winning combination.:eek:
 

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Service

You know....sometimes you have to think what is the profounding reasons why certain dealerships have a very KEEN focus on service.....

As expected from reading an infinit amount of posts in regards to Mercedes Benz, BMWs and Jaguars...I strongly believe that the reason why they HAVE to have a keen focus on service is because they have products that are NOT reliable. And sometimes...when you are a company that provides SUCH excellent service that even if you experience inferior performance and reliability... the ratio in which you recieve for excellent service sometimes out weigh the quality of the products.

That is just an observation and an opinion of mind...On ther other hand...I have an MDX. The damn thing is reliable as the fire in HELL. So for me...WHO CARES if the service is poor...Cause am gonna hardly ever going to rely on the service..

Anyway...just my perspective.
 

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RX300 had 5 complaints...
 

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2002 GMC Envoy, 56 complaints...
 

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As with any car or manufacturer, you can have good ones and bad ones. I have a late 99 BMW 328I with 55,000 miles on it and it has had zero recalls or problems to date. I've had to do nothing to it beyond normal maintenance. On the otherhand, I've had about a dozen problems with the MDX so far and two recalls (radio and right seat airbag harness). That said, I love both vehicles as different as they are for what they bring to the table.



In 1989 I purchased a new 735 iL which I owned for 5 years. I had more problems with that car than with all the other vehicles that I have ever owned over the years combined - and I've owned Ford. So I'm not at all surprised by the long list of recalls for the X5; reminds me of the cliche "the more things change the more they say the same".
:eek: [/B]
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have a late 99 BMW 328I with 55,000 miles on it and it has had zero recalls or problems to date.
I'm happy to hear that you have enjoyed your 328I Mogur. However, if you check out the NHTSA's web site (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/), you will see that there are 25 records to be found under "consumer complaints" - including several injuries, 9 "technical service bulletins", and 2 safety "recalls" associated with your model-year BMW. :eek:

These modifications may already have been done to your vehicle without your knowledge. In fact, they did that to my 735 iL without my knowledge (or permission). :confused: I would take the car into the dealer for an oil change (or whatever), and only when I asked why they were taking so long, was I told that there were several "modifications" that BMW wanted them to do on my vehicle. One time, they changed steering components even though I never complained about any steering problem. The technician explained that others had experienced steering control problems so this was an "update" to correct the issue. This happened many times over the years. BMW didn't like to advertise the fact that their vehicles had defects, and refused to use the word "recall".

One of the 2 safety "recalls" listed for your vehicle is particularly worrisome Mogur, it states: "Defect Summary: IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE RETAINING CLIP THAT SECURES THE BRAKE BOOSTER PUSHROD TO THE BRAKE PEDAL ARM WAS NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED DURING PRODUCTION. IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE CLIP TO DETACH FROM THE PIN ON THE BRAKE PEDAL ARM ALLOWING THE PUSHROD TO DISCONNECT FROM THE ARM.
Consequence Summary:
IF THIS OCCURS, BRAKING IS NOT POSSIBLE. " :eek:

The other safety "recall" states: Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. THESE VEHICLES ARE BUILT WITH A SIDE AIR BAG SYSTEM CONSISTING OF DOOR-MOUNTED THORAX AIR BAGS (REAR DOOR AIR BAGS ARE OPTIONAL), A HEAD PROTECTION SYSTEM (HPS) FOR FRONT OCCUPANTS, A CENTRAL ELECTRONIC SENSOR AND DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM, LEFT AND RIGHT SATELLITE IMPACT SENSORS, AND ASSOCIATED WIRING. THIS SYSTEM IS UNDULY SENSITIVE TO CERTAIN NON-CRASH IMPACTS, SUCH AS CONTACTING LARGE POTHOLES OR CURBS AT SUBSTANTIAL SPEED.

Consequence Summary:
THIS COULD CAUSE THE SIDE AIR BAG AND HPS TO DEPLOY WITHOUT AN ACTUAL SIDE CRASH. IN ADDITION, THE BATTERY SAFETY TERMINAL (BST) WOULD ALSO ACTIVATE, DISCONNECTING THE STARTER CABLE FROM THE BATTERY. IN THIS CASE, VEHICLE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM WOULD CONTINUE TO OPERATE AND THE ENGINE WOULD CONTINUE TO RUB, BUT AFTER STOPPING, COULD NOT BE RESTARTED. " :eek:

Many injuries have been caused by the air bags deploying at an inappropriate time on your model-year BMW Mogur. I strongly suggest that you call your dealer immediately about both these safety "recalls" (and all the TSBs) involving your BMW for an explanation. After you do so, please let us know what their (BMW) excuse was for not informing you about these safety recalls (and TSBs). Meanwhile, may you find solace in the fact that no safety "recalls" have been issued on your Acura MDX.

If you look up the TSBs (NHTSA's web site) for the 1989 735 iL (the model I owned), you will find too many TSBs to count. There must be over 100! .:eek:

In general (averaging tens of thousands of vehicles), Honda (Acura) makes vehicles that are far more reliable than BMW does (source: Consumer Reports 2002 Annual Auto Issue); and the odd lemon that Honda (Acura) puts out doesn't change that fact.

I rest my case.
 

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oceanMDX said:


If you look up the TSBs (NHTSA's web site) for the 1989 735 iL (the model I owned), you will find too many TSBs to count. There must be over 100! .:eek:

Holy cow!:eek:

well look at it this way. BMW's quality has improved significantly since 1989.;)

reminds me of plenty of old jokes- what does BMW stand for?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
BMW

...what does BMW stand for?
Okay, here goes:

- on a trip: Bring Mechanic With you

- my BMW was a: Broken Monster Widget

- it: Brings Mechanics Work

- it had: Broken Metal Welds

- it almost: Broke My Wallet

- it never: Brought Me Wealth

- nor even: Brought Me Women

- even though I had: Been Months Waiting

- but it: Beats Me Why

- it was such a: Bondo Mud Wagon

- all in all, it was a: Brutal Money Waster

:D :D :D


At any rate, my BMW was so unreliable that I hope it wasn't recycled because the disease it had (BMWosis) could have spread to the new vehicles. Hey, maybe that's why the X-5 has such poor reliability. :D
 

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Ultimate Driving Machine
UDM
Ultimate Defective Machinery
Ulitimate Depletion of Money
Ultimate Discrepant Money-burner
Unexpected Deterioration May occur
U Don't Matter

I chastised a reviewer on epinions.com for his review on the MDX when he had no intention of ever buying one, he just wanted to show that 'it's a nice car' but certainly no equal to the car from the Motherland!

He emailed me back with a wimpy excuse, stating the SLX is an example of Acura's fine products. I told him you are going to have to do better than that the SLX is history and not an Acura product, but a rebadged Isuzu. I said what about the 19 recalls on the X5 against the MDX's 2 recalls for it's first year of production. "Oh, yes I do find that disconcerting too. But except for one problem, ours has been extremely reliable."
He never responded to my query about higher insurance rates, and the outrageous cost of parts and service.
I used to like bimmers a lot, and thought they were the best sports sedan out there. But now they just seem to cost owners more money to run and purchase.
 

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Somebody did a lot of work on that study!

A friend of mine had a first generation M3 with weird problems.
Things that should never happen to modern automobiles, like the transmission linkage hanging up.
Spark plugs wires are dressed down narrow metal channels, creating a mess as the cables deteriorate and age under heat. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out what will happen in time.

Check out the problems on the alldata site....it's pretty bad!

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/06/89061712.html
 

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hey dale, can u pull up info on newer Bimmers? how about the new 3 series. I am trying to figure out how much BMW's quality has improved over the last decade.

thanks in advance and GREAT LINK!
 

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X Reliability

Yeah, interesting reading all of the bimmer comments. Owned one while in undergraduate studies back in '76, a pre-owned '74 2002. Finely honed machine. Hardly had an opportunity to drive it since it was in the shop with various suspension and oil leak problems. Never owned one again. Having said that, I have driven other bimmers since then and admittedly they handle and drive well.....but y'know, despite what the auto mags say, the rest of the world is catching up: my X handles (imhop), pretty darn well and from a seat of the pants POV, like a '98 5 series!
 

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While we are reminiscing, I had a silver '72 2002, that was a joy to drive.
They were so less complicated in those days. And a good thing, because the price of parts was still ridiculous 30 years ago.
It had a marginal cooling system though, as well as a habit of consuming throwout bearings every 30,000 miles.


Ten years later I buy a Toyota Celica GT which granted, is a nice car, but hardly as much fun to drive. I sold it with 143K miles on it, the cylinder head and oil pan still intact from the day it was new. Never burned oil, never overheated. Parts readily available and reasonably priced.
The alternator and clutch went out after 100,000 miles.

That's why when they talk about German engineering, it just falls on deaf ears.
 
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