[Pauls MDX]

Update on the Pilot from Honda & Model X

Here's the latest and newest pic's on this link:


http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=4820


This is an Edmunds Review of the new model:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/preview/articles/49762/article.html

another link on the car show 2002

http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=4921

Model X from Honda

http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=4816


We've received some information regarding the upcoming 2003 Honda Pilot SUV.

There will be 5 models available!
LX - base
EX - mid-line with cloth
EXL - w/leather
EXL-RES w/Rear Entertainment System, DVD
EXL-NAV w/Navigation System (unknown as to whether this also includes the RES)

Colors are: (Exterior/Interior)
Beige/Saddle
Green/Saddle
Black/Gray
Blue/Gray
Grey Or Granite/Fern
Red/Grey
White/Fern
Silver/Grey

This is quite a lot of color combinations for a new model launch! It would seem that Honda is ensuring that the Pilot is attractive to a wide audience in this highly competitive market.

Expect the Pilot to be at dealerships in late May or June. We do not have any pricing information yet. The production version of the Pilot will be shown at the New York Auto Show later this month
More Info:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=637882&TICK=NYIAS&STORY=/www/story/03-27-2002/0001694967&EDATE=Mar+27,+2002

 

[billco302]

Hmmm, makes me wonder if I should have waited for this. I just ordered my MDX 11 days ago. Naaa!

 

[ghotie]

Thanks for the link. Some nice pics, but tough to imagine 8 passenger seating. Can't believe you'd squeeze three across in the 'wayback' (what we call the 3rd seat).

 

[DaleB]

Totally outfitted with leather and Navi for 32K is not bad.
That steering wheel has got to go! The whole interior is design is like something out of the Baltics. I guess they wanted to make sure it did not look as good as an MDX, but why make it look uglier than an Accord?

 

[fancourt]

DaleB,

Uh, to each his own but I have really enjoyed my '98 Accord V6 and it doesn't look ugly. At least not to me. But then I am trading for an "X". Same color as Accord--White. Where is it? Was supposed to have been built Monday but haven't heard from dealer yet.

 

[papawoolf]

NAV or Entertainment System not both

What a bummer, it looks like you get NAV or the entertainment system but can't have both.

Pilot EX models add such features as aluminum alloy wheels; synchronized front and rear automatic climate control; a seven-speaker, high-powered stereo; and options including leather interior, a Honda Satellite-linked Navigation System or Honda's DVD Rear Entertainment System.

Hopefully Acura will design the 2003 MDX with the Base Carrier and the DVD Rear Entertainment System from the Pilot. The Pilot carrier looks more usable than the MDX's.

I wonder if the Pilot will have a wait list like the Odyssey and the MDX? If so will the dealers bargain or sell them at MSRP.

This might be an alternative to getting a second MDX. This way the wife can drive it and I can drive the MDX.

 

[ifeldman]

I noticed that the Nav controls are on the right of the display, rather than the left, as they currently are with the MDX. I wonder what the rationale was for that. If I want to check my mileage, or move between map display and map/turn display, I would have to reach far.

 

[ghotie]

I also have a 2000 TL and the controls are on the right of the screen. Makes no sense unless somehow they thought that the passenger would be using it more than the driver. I'm glad they were moved to the left side on the MDX.

 

[DaleB]

DaleB,

Uh, to each his own but I have really enjoyed my '98 Accord V6 and it doesn't look ugly.

Sorry, I mistated my remark. I don't think an ACCORD looks ugly at all (inside or outside), but the interior of the Pilot does IMHO.
Artist's conceptions of the exterior Pilot make it look quite good from the outside.

 

[Gar]

Ghotie,
So you also call the 3rd seat a "wayback" eh?
I thought that term was unique to our family. We've been using it since our sons were little guys.
Gar in Indy
Go Indiana !!

 

[MDXtrous]

I think the silver is actually very nice. I think the red had reminded me too much of the first gen CRV. But definitely not bad for the budget conscious.

 

[Erik]

The Pilot looks to be a fine vehicle. I would imagine that it will sell well. However, one significant reason (of several) that I bought the MDX is that, except for the Aztec, it is the only SUV with a NHTSA 4-star rollover resistance rating. For safety minded folk like me, this was a critical factor. Honda claims that they expect the Pilot to have 5-star passenger and driver crash test ratings, which is wonderful of course. But, will they join the ranks of MDX and Aztec with a 4 star rollover resistance rating? Has anyone heard of Honda or anyone else suggesting that the Pilot's rollover rating will be 4 star? Who knows, maybe it will indeed be. After all, it is going to be wider than the MDX. But, it's also going to be shorter and higher, so I have no guess. I believe that the statistic is that 80%(!) of all fatalities in SUV accidents occur in rollovers. So, the Pilot's rollover resistance is as of yet unknown, plus '03 will be the Pilot's first model year (always a risk), not to mention that the MDX is better looking, and I am content with my choice of the '02 MDX. I kinda wish that I could wait for the '03 and get the more powerful engine, but on the other hand, won't gas mileage suffer with the more powerful engine?

peace

 

[Drew]

Re: NAV or Entertainment System not both

What a bummer, it looks like you get NAV or the entertainment system but can't have both.

Pilot EX models add such features as aluminum alloy wheels; synchronized front and rear automatic climate control; a seven-speaker, high-powered stereo; and options including leather interior, a Honda Satellite-linked Navigation System or Honda's DVD Rear Entertainment System.

Hopefully Acura will design the 2003 MDX with the Base Carrier and the DVD Rear Entertainment System from the Pilot. The Pilot carrier looks more usable than the MDX's.

The reason why you can't get both is because the radio headunit also controls the DVD entertaintment system. As a result, if you get the navigation system, you lose this multi-function headunit for the navigation screen.

 

[Drew]

The Pilot looks to be a fine vehicle. I would imagine that it will sell well. However, one significant reason (of several) that I bought the MDX is that, except for the Aztec, it is the only SUV with a NHTSA 4-star rollover resistance rating. For safety minded folk like me, this was a critical factor. Honda claims that they expect the Pilot to have 5-star passenger and driver crash test ratings, which is wonderful of course. But, will they join the ranks of MDX and Aztec with a 4 star rollover resistance rating? Has anyone heard of Honda or anyone else suggesting that the Pilot's rollover rating will be 4 star? Who knows, maybe it will indeed be. After all, it is going to be wider than the MDX. But, it's also going to be shorter and higher, so I have no guess. I believe that the statistic is that 80%(!) of all fatalities in SUV accidents occur in rollovers. So, the Pilot's rollover resistance is as of yet unknown, plus '03 will be the Pilot's first model year (always a risk), not to mention that the MDX is better looking, and I am content with my choice of the '02 MDX. I kinda wish that I could wait for the '03 and get the more powerful engine, but on the other hand, won't gas mileage suffer with the more powerful engine?

peace

The answer to your question about the rollover rating is probably yes, since the MDX and Pilot share very similar dimensions and ground clearance. While the NHTSA's ratings are helpful, they are also quite useless in that they are static measurements and do not take into account real world conditions. That is, static measurements cannot take into account the benefits of stability control, or different suspension tuning. For example, the Corvette, despite its low centre of gravity and width, had one of the highest rollover figures.

This is one major reason that I don't put a lot of stock into the NHTSA's rollover ratings. Real world tests, such as what Consumer Reports conducts are far more realistic. Even the NHTSA realises this and is developing dynamic rollover tests. The static measurements are to a large extent, to give the public something to look at in the interim. Unfortunately, it is misleading has the potential of causing a lot of confusion to those who are less informed about the specifics.

 

[vicpai]

Honda Pilot specs.........

........the article did not mention the Pilot's dimensions. Articles I've read before stated that the Pilot's length is shorter than the MDX, some others speculated that it would be the same as the MDX........but speculation on width ranged from wider than MDX to narrower........any insiders know anything??

 

[Tech555]

Very true. If you have to make an emergency turn off an Interstate with an embankment at 70MPH, you are probably going to roll over in any SUV. Fortunately most of the rollover deaths are caused by people not being buckled in and they get ejected from the vehicle. (Note that Airbags do little to stop this so it is important to use your seatbelt also) The other big problems are the roof will cave in and the seats can break. Unfortunately the NHTSA does not test for this so you don't know what will happen.

 

[wmquan]

While the NHTSA's ratings are helpful, they are also quite useless in that they are static measurements and do not take into account real world conditions.

Saying that the NHTSA rollover ratings are "helpful" but also "quite useless" is a rather contradictory statement. I don't think something can be both polar opposites at the same time.

I agree that the rollover ratings do have limitations and do not factor in features like stability control. However, I think they're a base comparison mark and then it's up to the consumer to factor in emergency handling tests, etc. until NHTSA comes up with something better. E.g. if someone sees an SUV with a one-star rating, I'm not sure if they'd feel comfortable buying it over an SUV with a four-star recommendation. Suspension tuning, stability control, etc. may obviously change it somewhat but the bottom line is that the vehicle has a general weight/mass distribution that is more prone to a rollover.

For example, the Corvette, despite its low centre of gravity and width, had one of the highest rollover figures.

This is where you really have to take the statistics with a grain of salt. One reason the Corvette rolls over a lot is because their owners are pushing the vehicles a lot more. One's more likely to do a risky, potentially-rollover-inducing trick in a 'vette than in a Buick Park Avenue. Not just that the vehicle encourages it, but the demographics of the driver makes that driver less likely to push things on the highway.

As Tech555 mentioned, the other gimmick with the rollover statistics is that most of the deaths in rollovers are caused by people not buckling up. Granted that if more people buckled in, some of them still might be killed by a roof cave-in. But these stats have to be used and taken with care.

This all said, I wouldn't worry about a Pilot being more rollover-prone than an MDX, at least as far as the rollover rating goes. Though the Pilot will probably not come with tires as good as the MDX (Touring, at least), and that's always a factor in avoiding an accident in the first place.

And, frankly, the limitation of the rollover resistance rating is reflected by the fact the MDX is a below-average performer in the emergency handling test as conducted by Consumer Reports, and also noted by Motor Week in their test. This is where lack of stability control hurts the vehicle (in terms of avoiding the accident that triggers the rollover), and I'd postulate, without scientific proof to back this up, the MDX is no more rollover-proof than some three-star rollover resistance vehicles that have better emergency handling.

And I don't believe Acura has made strong statements about how crush-resistant their roof is in a rollover. Let's hope that it is at least fairly sturdy and doesn't crumple like an aluminum can. Photos of RX300 rollovers have provided some indication that it is not good in rollovers, whereas ML's are advertised with the vehicle rolling like crazy without any crushing. The new Volvo XC90 SUV is apparently tested for rollovers by the manufacturer and has reinforced steel to prevent crushing. Also have seen an X5 rollover photo that wasn't encouraging either. Of course, the photos aren't backed up with scientific evidence to fully document the circumstances of the crash.

 

[Erik]

You've given me some things to think about, wmquan. I certainly agree with your point about the rollover resistance rating being a base comparison mark, as well as your point about 'vette drivers driving differently than Park Ave drivers. However, I was shamefully unaware that Consumer Reports rated the MDX as a below-average performer in the emergency handling test. Can you shed any more light on that test? Was this result relative to other SUVs, or all vehicles? I would have thought that since it is wide and reasonably powerful, the MDX would perform reasonably well in emergency handling. That's what I get for assuming.

The roof strength point is another good one too. Perhaps from a safety perspective, the MDX will prove to be no better than the Pilot. Maybe if I want the safest SUV (and I do not want an ML), I should be waiting for the XC90...if I want to take a chance on a first year model vehicle...which I'm not sure that I do.

I know that I may be perceived as being a bit obssesive about the safety issue, but hey, I've got infant twins. I want to know that I'm doing all I reasonably can.

hmm...

 

[Soichiro Honda]

Really great vehicle.... can't wait!

 

[donsev]

I was shamefully unaware that Consumer Reports rated the MDX as a below-average performer in the emergency handling test. Can you shed any more light on that test? Was this result relative to other SUVs, or all vehicles? I would have thought that since it is wide and reasonably powerful, the MDX would perform reasonably well in emergency handling

Actually, If I recall correctly, CR gave the MDX emergency handling a half black (fair) same as many other SUVs (including the Highlander WITH VSC)
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even with electonic stability control....the Highlander proved a little slow and sloppy when negotiating our emergency-avoidance maneuvers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would not characterize the half black as being below average - it depends entirely on the data set (i.e. All cars, sports cars, SUVs, wagons, etc - although I believe that CR DOES compare emergency handling across WAGONS and SUVs for their reference point). As far as I know, only one other true SUV achieved a higher emergency handling rating - the X5 with a half red circle. I may be wrong but I believe that CR's earlier test of the ML320 w/o stability control, received the same rating as the MDX (Drew?)