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Discussion Starter #21
Am really amazed that no one seems to have speeded up their G3 MDX at least once to find out the top speed, nobody seems to use it for any kind of sporty driving...

I guess this is the reason why fast import cars from Japan and Europe are sometimes equipped with smaller brakes, softer suspension etc specifically for the US market as these cars are hardly (n)ever used to their high speed capabilities in the US ;-)
 

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Am really amazed that no one seems to have speeded up their G3 MDX at least once to find out the top speed, nobody seems to use it for any kind of sporty driving...
'Top speed' and 'sporty driving' are generally two quite different things. 'Sporty driving' generally involves spirited driving on curvy roads - such as mountain roads, preferably where one can do it reasonably safely and not cut corners or go into the opposing lane.

'Top speed' isn't really what I'd call sporty - it's just mashing the pedal down to see how fast the vehicle can go. This is generally a dangerous thing to do in addition to a potentially costly thing to do if one gets a ticket. It's dangerous because one would need to find a long stretch of fairly straight flat road with no other vehicles on it. If others are driving on the same road at 65mph and a person is driving at 100mph+, they're blowing by those slower drivers unexpectedly and something as simple as a lane change on the other driver's part could easily cause a fatal accident. This is different than some unlimited stretches of the Autobahn where most drivers are driving a speed closer to each other albeit fast, and even Germany has speed limits on the Autobahn in areas not suited for very high speed driving. There are some areas of the western part of the USA in particular that have some long stretches of road suitable for higher speed driving such as Utah (where the top speed limit is 85mph in places), Nevada, Montana, Kansas, etc., but one takes a risk both physically and financially if they were to try to get to 112mph or whatever the speed limiter is set to. Something simple like a rabbit running out in front of a vehicle at that speed can be a problem and if a deer jumps out it'd be catastrophic.

There's 'sporty' and then there's 'non-sensible'.

Moreover - if people really want to drive fast they could do so fairly safely on a track and if they're the type of person who drives on a track they likely wouldn't do it in a family SUV but rather, something more suitable for the track like a Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, some other similar vehicles, or something more purpose built and souped up.

The vast majority of people who buy the top spec'd BMW, Mercedes, and the like SUVs use them primarily to get groceries and drive their kids to school and soccer and will likely never go more than 10mph above the speed limit, which is already dangerous enough for them given they usually incessantly talking on their cell phone while they're driving or worse - texting.

I've enjoyed driving the MDX spiritedly on twisty mountain roads and it was fine to drive between 85-90 for long stretches in states where 85 is permitted, such as Utah, but I don't really have a desire to go flat out on a public road to find the top speed - it's simply too dangerous for little gain.
 

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Am really amazed that no one seems to have speeded up their G3 MDX at least once to find out the top speed, nobody seems to use it for any kind of sporty driving...

Like mdxstang said these 2 things do not go hand in hand.
I use my MDX for touge sessions with my friends, its dumb, impractical and not that impressive yet I am still apexing stuff in a 4500lb SUV. That is very different than say; Drag Racing which the MDX is not suitable for unless its going against other Soccer Mom SUVs.

Lets put it this way...
You don´t find your MDX sporty because you have the most crippled version ala FWD which handles mmmKay for a Crossover, Take that it does not meet any record breaking 0 to 60 and it has a low Top Speed no wonder you think its not sporty when compared to a AMG ML63.
Even then I will dare to say SH-AWD MDX has driving dynamics on par or above your AMG ML63 BUT will never hit its 0 to 60.. That does not mean is not "SPORTY" they are simply in 2 very different price brackets were your AMG can give you an insanely impractical engine to compensate for an absurd curb weight of 5285lbs (2.4Ton), The SH-AWD MDX = 4220lbs (1.9Ton) gives you excellent driving behavior to compensate for its low HP.

So to resume:
The MDX SH-AWD is the Sporty one..
The FWD MDX is a Grocery Getter and MPG Friendly car ONLY.

FYI: SH-AWD was always meant to be a Handling Enhancer AWD system since the very beginning, not a WEATHER AWD system, So the SH-AWD MDX is the "Sporty" one..
The FWD MDX is... Just another crossover with nothing special.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I fully appreciate the input from mdxstang and skirmich, but I feel they take my reasoning out of it's context. Perhaps it is me not being from the US that I state things somewhat different/ perhaps unclear.... the message doesn't get through ;-)

Me using the ML63 as example at first was a bit wrong, but as I stated later: here in Europe, almost all SUV-s (even the Honda CRV with just half the HP can do 118 MPH) are capable of a higher topspeed than 112 MPH, so I was unpleasantly surprised to find out the MDX being limited to this.

Trying out the topspeed has nothing to do with dragracing, (which I feel to be silly), I really don't understand why you make this connection/ remark.
When driving on the Autobahn in Germany where a cruising speed of 90-110MPH can be quite normal on the unrestricted stretches, sometimes pushing the accellerator to overtake or to just speed up for the fun of it has nothing to do with dragracing... and is not dangerous or irresponsible as many cars drive at these speeds there.

To state that sporty and fast/ high speed are 2 completely different things.. I disagree, they can perfectly mix together into a nice driving experience.
This topic just started with me asking about the topspeed with after that the topic perhaps getting away from that a bit and I do realise I am absolutely not the average driver. I am a licenced racedriver, I compete in our countries MX-5 (Miata) racecup and have a nice diverse small collection of other fast(er) cars.
This was the reasion for me before owning a Cayenne Turbo, a ML500 and the ML63 which I have for sale now, I wanted a roomy general purpose fast daily car.

Reason for getting the MDX was that I am fed up with the gas guzzling and high maintenance/ repaircost (longterm quality is a bit of an issue and disappointing with MB) of the ML63.

So I wanted a "Japanese quality sporty" (so no Audi/ BMW) SUV with V6 or V8 and choice in these is very small here, hardly anything available.
Only the Infinity FX fitted the bill, I testdrove a FX50 and it drives really nice, but that has very limited interior space and is also very rare here.
I then by accident found the MDX (one of only 2 G3 in my country, both were privatly imported) and it fitted most requirements, so I got that.
NO SUV will ever be a sportscar, but a good mix of practicality and some spirited driving capabilities would be nice.

I will have to disagree about the MDX AWD being on par with the ML amg.
The only other G3 MDX in my country IS the AWD version and was for sale too, so I have testdriven that too.
Regrettably that one just was too expensive for my taste, so I bought the FWD as daily car with keeping in mind that if I want to do some really spirited driving, I can take one of my another more sport oriëntated cars that I own too.

The AWD MDX is a bit better through the curves than the FWD MDX but still suffers from the same heavy SUV leaning over in corners, all over driving experience it is probably about the same as a regular ML, but certainly not on par with a ML63 amg.
However this is to be expected, the suspension on the amg version is quite a bit more sporty than on the regular ML and it is in a completely different price league..
By the way: according to the registration papers my ML63 weighs 2210 KG/ about 4875 lbs, so it is 400 lbs lighter than you state.. still 705 lbs more than the MDX though..

However.. all besides the point, I still don't know if the topspeed of my MDX limited to 112 mph is normal.....
 

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When driving on the Autobahn in Germany where a cruising speed of 90-110MPH can be quite normal on the unrestricted stretches, sometimes pushing the accellerator to overtake or to just speed up for the fun of it has nothing to do with dragracing... and is not dangerous or irresponsible as many cars drive at these speeds there.
I've driven on the Autobahn (and many other countries' freeways in Europe) many times and as I stated in my post, I agree with you here since on certain stretches on the Autobahn the overall speeds are high and therefore the relative speeds with one driving in excess of 110mph isn't nearly as great as it'd be in most places here when some vehicles are plodding along at a much lower speed. In addition, the areas of the Autobahn that I've driven on that have no speed limit are built to handle the high speeds and the driver can tend to count on that - i.e. that there won't be sharp curves, an undulating road surface, a poor quality surface, and the like since those areas are well signed in Germany. In other words - I'd feel more comfortable driving my MDX at 110mph+ in Germany on an Autobahn than on freeways in the USA. But you expressed surprise and questioned why people hadn't pushed the MDX to its top speed and I'm saying it's because the marketplace for the vehicle is primarily the USA/Canada where the conditions I indicated above apply.

It seems that an Acura/Honda service tech would be able to answer the question about the artificially limited top speed on the MDX for you. It must be stated somewhere in a shop manual of some kind. It also seems like the kind of thing that wouldn't be that difficult to defeat via a software change. Maybe some of the 'performance chip' providers for vehicles would know the answer.
 

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The AWD MDX is a bit better through the curves than the FWD MDX but still suffers from the same heavy SUV leaning over in corners, all over driving experience it is probably about the same as a regular ML, but certainly not on par with a ML63 amg.

Did you hold power through the corners? the MDX is not a neutral driving vehicle at all.. You had to keep on power in order for SH-AWD to Torque Vector.. This is what makes the MDX fun to drive as it has 2 distinctive driving patterns.. OFF Power and ON Power.. The ON Power behavior is hard to achieve under a Test Drive, Specially since its someone else car and not used to it. The FWD MDX version represents the Off Power behavior in both versions. SH-AWD needs constant torque in order to work.

I driven quite a few cars in Track and the MDX best them all, Including the BMW X5 and the Audi Q7.. The only thing going for the AMG ML63 is RAW Power but its still a super heavy Compact Crossover. I know for a fact the MDX will overtake the ordinary ML63 in a track.. The AMG ML63 will make it up in straights for sure but that is to be expected considering the titanic size difference in Torque.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Did you hold power through the corners? the MDX is not a neutral driving vehicle at all.. You had to keep on power in order for SH-AWD to Torque Vector.. This is what makes the MDX fun to drive as it has 2 distinctive driving patterns.. OFF Power and ON Power.. The ON Power behavior is hard to achieve under a Test Drive, Specially since its someone else car and not used to it. The FWD MDX version represents the Off Power behavior in both versions. SH-AWD needs constant torque in order to work.

I driven quite a few cars in Track and the MDX best them all, Including the BMW X5 and the Audi Q7.. The only thing going for the AMG ML63 is RAW Power but its still a super heavy Compact Crossover. I know for a fact the MDX will overtake the ordinary ML63 in a track.. The AMG ML63 will make it up in straights for sure but that is to be expected considering the titanic size difference in Torque.
Yes, to try it out, during the testdrive I specifically pushed the SH-AWD MDX through the corners: both through short, low speed (usually about 20 Mph) corners that I tried at about 40 Mph and longer higher speed (up to about 60 Mph) corners. Through the short corners the car showed clear understeer due to it's heavy leaning and it had too little rear wheel drive assist, it couldn't cope. Through the longer high speed corners it felt way better, but not better than the ML. Perhaps in the US the MB ML63 has to US taste changed suspension software and smaller brakes?
However, when comparing my European spec ML63 with it's tunable (comfort/normal/sport) airsuspension and big AMG brakes to the Awd MDX, I'm sorry, but in a different league.

The ML63 feels (especially in suspension sport mode) more secure/firm, a lot more planted through corners. But hey, if it didn't, the price difference would really be rediculous.
Brakes on the ML are way bigger (even with the higher weight of the ML) more capable to heavy use too.

I have tried out the brakes on my MDX to the limit and these would never hold up on the track at full speed. Even after having changed to high spec brakefluid, they start to fade really quick. But then, I wouldn't drive the MDX on track as that is completely pointless. Depending on the type of track (how much corners and how much speed can be picked up on the straights), the brakes would be destroyed within a few full speed laps, it isn't the car for that.

I have no idea who was driving the ML63 on track that you are writing about, but that guy surely wasn't able use it's potential: the brakes are way more capable than the MDX's and cornering will be more firm.

On the options and luxury part: the top spec MDX that I have is on some points a little better, on some points a little less than the full spec ML63. As a total on that about equal. Just the seats in the ML have more side support, the MDX seats are lacking that.

Not intending to bash the MDX, I am starting to like it more and more as a comfortable daily car, but I would like it to be a bit more sporty handling and have faster top speed.
 

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Add negative camber to all four corners (not too much, -1 to -2 will suffice) and if possible, also add some caster, get sticky summer tires (ideally wider width and wheels to go with it too), get a custom fabricated larger rear sway bar with stiffer bushings, but as for the speed limiter... oreo.
 

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No no, Obviously the AMG ML63 is a complete different Animal, It should be better in every single way...
But my comment was based from the "Sporty" comment you made before since The SH-AWD MDX is the sportiest Crossover in its class so its hard to see why you didn´t find it "Sporty".

My "Touge arena" is the infamous "Rumorosa" Mountain in Baja California, México (I call it my mini Nürburgring).. Spans across +/- 65 kilometers, change in elevation is 1250 meters (1.2km) from the base to the top and down. So its basically a test of Power (Going up), Handling (All the way) and in the way down a brutal destruction of Brakes (Going down).


The MDX has held just fine going down at around 115kph in average (Normal Average is 75kph, Max Speed Limit is 80kph for cars), Tires screeching all the way (Stock tires are not meant to do this) So with a change of All Summer performance tires it could do this as a breeze. For reference my Track tuned TL-S can do this course averaging 140kph so its pretty down right impressive for a Bone Stock crossover to do this course at that speed with stock tires.. Key thing is to keep power up all times, Including in the way down which is scary at times.

My fellow Touge drivers run 370z, BMW M3s and Mustangs.. So it was funny to get the MDX in the run without any hiccups.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I plan to put 8x20" ET40 wheels with 245/50, 255/50 or 255/45 tires on the MDX shortly to try out.
Hopefully the somewhat wider stance and lower profile (stiffer) tires that will have about the same total wheel weight will improve cornering directness.
Wider wheels/tyres as most people do will add extra unsprung weight and I don't want that as this will negatively affect roadholding..
 

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why would anyone want to red line their suv? its not meant to be red lined and itll cause immense stress on it. Trying to get top speed on MDX and then debating why its not faster, imho, is like trying run a marathon in flip flops then being mad u didn't run faster than people with running shoes...maybe at my ripe old age of 35, somethings are beyond me...
 

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This is a Honda...
Honda engines love´s to REV
And its actually why most of the powerband in your MDX is in the Top End of the REV Line, smh...
 

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Yep. Hondas like to rev. Don't drive a Honda like your grandpa's tractor.

engine_specs.jpeg

OTOH an MDX is not and shall never be an NSX, SH-AWD or otherwise. :crying2:
 

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Nobody said the MDX is an NSX though it's just a Sporty Crossover that should be driven like such, If I wanted a boring Crossover I would have bought something cheaper.

If we drove stuff like the Meta tells us then the new Grand Cherokee Trackhawk is for nobody right? It will flop hard...
 

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Discussion Starter #35
@ Skirmich: your mountain stretch isn's a little Nurburgring, it's a big one ;-) (Nurburgring is 20.8 or 24.4 Km depending if you add the F1 track or not)
I have driven the Ring occasionally and that (due to it's length, huge amount of not overseeable curves and in some corners sideways tilting roadsurface is a very difficult track. You will need to drive it dozens of times to get to know it, to be able to drive it fast.

Your mountain track looks really nice and entertaining!
You should be able to save the brakes a lot in manual sportshift mode with the steeringwheel shift paddles, using engine breaking into corners and thus being in the correct gear, having full accelleration potential on exiting the corners.
On a stretch like that, going fast is much more a result of being a good driver than having a fast car....
A (mountain) stretch is however not comparable to a real racetrack which will put a lot more stress on the car and especially it's brakes as these have almost no chance to cool down between corners.

@ Newyorkmdx01: at the electronically limited topspeed of 112 mph the engine is at about 4200rpm, so nowhere near redline.
Honda Vtec engines deliver their peak performance in the top of the revline, so it should have NO problem revving up.
In fact, you are missing out on a good part of the performance if you don't rev it to redline occasionally.
I can however see that many owners possibly never will as they use it as a family car.

On the MDX not being an NSX...
I am very fortunate to also own a '98 NSX-T, first having had a European NSX-T for 4 years and then by accident finding a super low Mls pristene example for sale in the US which I imported from the US myself.
I have it for about 10 years now, having improved that too with new-NSX-S suspension, NSX-R chassis braces, a NSX-R CF rear spoiler and new style rear light units, Works wheels, upgraded brakepads, some interior toys and extra gauges and to top things off, a Comptech supercharger, and custom exhaust with that the engine is putting out a dyno tested 358 Wheel HP, comes to about 410 Bhp at the flywheel.

I have occasionally driven it on the racetrack during trackdays and have been able to keep up with, and sometimes humiliate Ferrari 328/348/360's a few times with this often in their opinion low(er) class Acura/Honda..
With the NSX there is almost no difference between US and EU spec.

It is the most special car that I own in my opinion, I am soo lucky to be able to have this.

I do maintanance and repairs on my cars myself most of the time (unless it requires really specialist equipment) thus saving myself a lot af money and also as I have somewhat unusual cars, it is often better to do things for yourself as workshops most of the time don't know the model/ have no experience with it..

Teasers ;-)

Pic1 my former silver EU spec NSX next to my imported red US spec when the silver one was for sale, butI still had them both.



Pic 2-3 as it is now



Pic4-5 enginebay with the Comptech supercharger



Hmm....am getting waaaaaay off topic now:)
 

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Discussion Starter #36
As I am going off topic anyway:
When I had the MDX for a few days, it turned out that the front brakediscs suffered from "hot judder": when breaking more strongly a few times, heating up the brakes, the discs warped quite agressively, resulting in quite strong steering shaking. Can't understand why the former owner didn't have a problem with this, was really bad when heating up the brakes.

As I read the OE discs warp quite often, I ordered an upgraded front disc/pad kit through ebay.
These are on the car for about 1.000 Mls and are holding up fine till now.
 

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Nice one on those NSXs! I wish I had one but I would settle for an S2k...

As for engine braking, Is not ideal as SH-AWD cannot engine brake at all so using the engine brake highly upsets the balance as its only braking the front wheels. You can imagine it makes it a high understeering fiesta in that scenario... So using the normal brakes its a MUST if you like anything resembling neutral driving.. EBD (Electronic Brake Distribution) in the MDX is also great! I thought it would only kick in when towing but you can really feel the rear brakes grabbing once you past a certain threshold in the brake pedal travel... So yeah brakes are toasted in the way down..

OEM brakes are known for crapping out even from the early 2000s.. Honda has always cheaped out on brake pad material which leads to early warping. That is why I always skip Akebono pads even though their premium brands must be good, Better go for EBC with the Kevlar Stuff.. Always worked wonders for me.
 
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