[DaleB]

I was wondering what the dealer will say when I request a 5 tire rotation, vs. a 4.
Will they know the difference?
If you have doubts, and like me intend to extend the life of your tires by 20%, the solution is simple.
Let the dealer do the 4 tire rotation as usual if it's part of your maintenance service, then when you get home, you only have to rotate the FS spare with the right rear tire, and you will finish a 5 tire rotation. Just remember to do it every time.

 

[wait4mdx]

I thought I read somewhere that this method is not preferred with radial tires? Anyhow, I'm wondering what it gains you -- 20% longer life of 5 tires seems like no advantage over the shorter life of 4 tires?

 

[DaleB]

I can not see how this affects radial tires, the basic 'front to back' rotation is being maintained, along with crossing the rears to the front. That's why the extra change out is only with a rear tire, so you always end up with a more evenly worn tire (from the rear axle) on the front every time.
It's not an advantage, if you plan to change the brand or type of tire at some point. I am happy with the Michelins myself, and it's no big effort to get another 20% life out of them.
Another way is to keep the spare, then just use the worst one for a spare when it's time to buy new ones, and only have to buy 3 next time. Whatever floats your boat!

 

[msu79gt82]

A potential negative could be the additional ...

... risk of damaging a rim that is "exposed" under the car. If (and it is not a certainty) a rim is "more" likely to be damaged while under the car then perhaps leaving one as a permanent full size spare would be best??

Of course one could do this AFTER any such damage occured?

 

[DaleB]

That's a very low risk considering the most vulnerable part of the rim is against the underbody, not facing the 'road environment'.
Besides, I put a vinyl tire cover over my F/S spare just to keep it cleaner.

 

[crete]

I'd be very interested in knowing what a dealer would think about 5 tire rotation. Let us know if you ever mention it to them.

 

[solomon]

Ooh, ooh, I know

I can not see how this affects radial tires, the basic 'front to back' rotation is being maintained, along with crossing the rears to the front.

Changing a wheel from the left to right side (or vice-versa) reverses its direction of rotation.

Here's what I'm given to understand (note that this goes *WAY* back to the introduction of radial tires to the mass market, and quite probably has no bearing on modern tires):
The belts in radial tires tend(ed) to take a "set" in a given direction and shift in relation to the rotation. When the rotation was later reversed, the belts would shift to take up the corresponding opposite "set" thus weakening the tire. Repeating this process could weaken the tire to the failure point.

Having had tread separation on a radial tire once (not terribly pleasant) I try and err on the cautious side, thus my tires are all rotated front-back only. YMMV.

Richard

 

[DaleB]

I've been rotating tires per the Acura manual on cars for as long as I can remember never having a problem other than occassional flats.
I do remember on the very first radials we only did one side rotations. But that was too long for even an old man like me to remember!

The only recommendation for rotating tires only on the same sides is for directional tires.
It is also an accepted alternate method
of rotation.
But if this is your preference then you could still benefit from a F/S spare if you save it for when the 4 tires are ready to be replaced you only need to buy 3.

I don't really care what the dealer thinks about 5 tire rotations. I think there is more being made of this than really amounts to a hill of beans.

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/

^ look at tire FAQs



http://www.discounttiredirect.com/helpTireRotation.html

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/rotate.htm

http://www.dunloptire.com/tiretech/Welcome.html?article=tire_rotation.txt

http://www.tiresafety.com/service/serv_nav.htm#5tirerotat

 

[DaleB]

I hope that's enough info. By the way, the only reason I wouldn't ask a dealer, is not every dealer is going to tell you the same thing.

I rather trust people who work with tires as a living.

 

[DaleB]

Re: Ooh, ooh, I know

Changing a wheel from the left to right side (or vice-versa) reverses its direction of rotation.

Here's what I'm given to understand (note that this goes *WAY* back to the introduction of radial tires to the mass market, and quite probably has no bearing on modern tires):
The belts in radial tires tend(ed) to take a "set" in a given direction and shift in relation to the rotation. When the rotation was later reversed, the belts would shift to take up the corresponding opposite "set" thus weakening the tire. Repeating this process could weaken the tire to the failure point.

Having had tread separation on a radial tire once (not terribly pleasant) I try and err on the cautious side, thus my tires are all rotated front-back only. YMMV.

Richard

For those really concerned about 'crossing' tires during rotation of non-directional radial tires even though it is recommended by Acura, here is method of both 4 and 5 tire rotations as recommended by Pirelli :

http://www.pirelli.com/en_42/tyres/about_tyres/tyre_advice/tyre_rotation.jhtml

 

[DaleB]

More info about rotation.

http://www.1010tires.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000003.html

I posed a question on the Michelin site and now have a phone number from Michelin to talk to one of their tire techs about rotation. Will let you know what he says...after all, it's the only thing between our MDX and the road!

 

[tigerfu]

Got the touring rim and tire from Tim. Had it mounted and balanced at Big O tires for $12. Brought it back home the same day evening and did my first 5-wheel rotation in the garage. Even the procedure was straight forward, it took me almost an hour with hand tools, and I was sweating like a hog afterwards. Test drove it when it was done. Didn't find anything wrong during the $100 miles trip to Murietta Hot Spring during the weekend. I feel much safer riding with the FS spare though. In retrospect I was pretty unwise going off-road in Ocotillo Wells with that flimpsy donut a couple of months ago.

-TL

 

[srpbep]

DaleB wrote:
I was wondering what the dealer will say when I request a 5 tire rotation, vs. a 4.

Will they know the difference?

If you have doubts, and like me intend to extend the life of your tires by 20%, the solution is simple. Let the dealer do the 4 tire rotation as usual if it's part of your maintenance service, then when you get home, you only have to rotate the FS spare with the right rear tire, and you will finish a 5 tire rotation. Just remember to do it every time.

Come on DaleB, they are a dealer employing mechanics and yes mechanics know what a 5-wheel rotation is all about. If you want to make sure they do it right, write where each wheel goes right on the wheels using a grease pencil [comes off real easy with a little car wax]. Then you will KNOW that it was done and done correctly.

Additionally, I think it is SILLY to PAY a dealer to do the rotation and then have to FINISH THE JOB YOURSELF when you get home!!

FYI -- You can buy a grease pencil at any Art Suppy House. They cost about $1.00 each. It is a great thing to have in your tool chest as it easily marks virtually any surface [including glass] and comes off quite easily when/if you want to remove the marking.

:2:

 

[srpbep]

wait4mdx wrote:
I thought I read somewhere that this method is not preferred with radial tires?

Anyhow, I'm wondering what it gains you -- 20% longer life of 5 tires seems like no advantage over the shorter life of 4 tires?

Method OK? -- As indicated by the links provided, crossing modern radial tires is not only OK, it appears that it is the PREFERRED method of rotation. If you are still concerned, I think the MDX owners manual corroborates the crossing [I'm too lazy to pull the manual and see if it is really in there].

What does a 5-wheel rotate gain you? -- First, I bought a full size spare [rim & tire] because I wanted the SECURITY OF A REAL SPARE. Once it is purchased, a 5-wheel rotation provides a 25% increase in the life of the tire set [not 20% as you mention]. Thus, there is no NET COST of the 5th tire over time, just the cost of purchasing the 5th rim [$180 at Tim's "group buy" pricing].

When we "use up" our first 5-tire set, I'll probably buy a new 4-tire set and put the best old tire on the "spare" and revert to a 4-wheel rotation. At least, this is what I normally do. I sometimes buy a new 5-tire set [have had great success negotiating a "special price when buying the 5th tire" several times over the years. After working out the "best 4-tire price", I have found that the 5th tire is sometimes provided at a significant discount.

 

[DaleB]

Method OK? -- As indicated by the links provided, crossing modern radial tires is not only OK, it appears that it is the PREFERRED method of rotation. If you are still concerned, I think the MDX owners manual corroborates the crossing [I'm too lazy to pull the manual and see if it is really in there].

What does a 5-wheel rotate gain you? -- First, I bought a full size spare [rim & tire] because I wanted the SECURITY OF A REAL SPARE. Once it is purchased, a 5-wheel rotation provides a 25% increase in the life of the tire set [not 20% as you mention]. Thus, there is no NET COST of the 5th tire over time, just the cost of purchasing the 5th rim [$180 at Tim's "group buy" pricing].

When we "use up" our first 5-tire set, I'll probably buy a new 4-tire set and put the best old tire on the "spare" and revert to a 4-wheel rotation. At least, this is what I normally do. I sometimes buy a new 5-tire set [have had great success negotiating a "special price when buying the 5th tire" several times over the years. After working out the "best 4-tire price", I have found that the 5th tire is sometimes provided at a significant discount.

Good info! I had never thought of getting 'another' 5 th tire, but just keep the worst of the bunch as a spare and buy a set of 4.
But you just brought up another viable option.

 

[deltajetfixer]

Two advantages of a full-size spare

1) No handling issues

2) No speed restrictions

ONLY disadvantage is: What to do with the now "extra" compact spare?

 

[Kit_C]

ONLY disadvantage is: What to do with the now "extra" compact spare?

I have a wheel on order from Tim, and am facing the same problem. My feeling is that the donut has no value, and I don't want it sitting in my garage.

I plan to ask the tire store mounts the FS spare to dispose of the donut wheel and tire. If they won't/can't take the wheel, I'll have them dismount and recycle the tire, and I'll dispose of the wheel in our local landfill (which will not accept tires).

Kit

 

[bomo]

I am awaiting delivery from Tim of Touring rim and full size spare through group buy... Just wondering...Instead of doing a 5 tire rotation would it not make as much sense to do a 4 tire rotation and when it is time to buy a new set of tires pick the best of the four as a spare, buy 3 new ones instead of 4 and use the full size spare as the 4th, assuming of course that you have not used it much as a spare?

2002 SS Touring w/ Navi.

 

[dakster]

You may want to try "selling" the spare on a online auction type place. someone may need the tire and it beats throwing it out...

Just a thought. May even make a buck or two in the process..

 

[DaleB]

It really could be small boat anchor, if you deflate it.