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Replacing a 2010 MDX Advance, what next?

7K views 43 replies 9 participants last post by  chrisexv6 
#1 ·
Hello all. First, let me say that I am a very happy owner of an MDX Advance. It honestly is the best vehicle I have ever owned. I came from Honda and Lexus, so my experiences are limited. But, I still love driving it every day.

That being said, it is going to be my wife's car soon and I have to get something else. Her 2003 Pilot has about 85,000 miles and we are told to sell it before it hits $100k to get the most $$$ out of it. So, as soon as it sells, she gets my MDX with about 80,000 miles on it and I have to replace it.

I have been window shopping for the past 6 months and I have to say that, unfortunately I am just not feeling the 2015 or 2016. I have to lease so it's new or nothing. My only, and I mean ONLY complaint about my MDX is gas mileage. I drive a lot. I also use my vehicle for the bulk of my business deliveries and it has served me well, whether plowing through 3' of snow, or through ice covered roads with my trusty Blizzaks on, it has never failed.

But 16-17 mpg just isn't cutting it, especially as we expanded our territory and I expect to be driving about 30-40% more.

So I am looking for something in the 30-35+ mpg range but I don't really want to scale back, unless there is some compelling reason to do so, more on that later. I love the feature set of the Advance and I just don't see it in the same price range with other vehicles. I am also looking for reliability.

I am down to the following:

Audi Q5 TDI - (600+ miles of range on a single tank. I have also been told that people can get is much as 35 mpg, if not more. (Don't know much about the brand though, or true reliability)

BMW X3 Diesel - Again, 30+mpg (I always heard that they struggle with reliability. In fact I was on the way to purchase an X5d when I came across my MDX in an Acura showroom down the street from the BMW dealership.)

Tesla Model S 70D - 240 miles on a single charge and a super charger within 10 minutes of my house and office. It's quite a bit more, but I would consider scaling back the features for never buying gas again, and it is CRAZY fun to drive. Almost like being in a strata coaster when you hit the accelerator.

I recently came from a Lexus RX, but didn't really like how it drove. Very nice vehicle, just a little too bland or sterile for my tastes.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I don't need a 3rd row anymore, or as much space as the MDX, but I would need some room for our deliveries. The Tesla is on the small side, but actually was big enough to work (58 cu ft with seats down). Just need to be in the 50+ cu ft range)

I don't really think a domestic would work for me because of their deprecation, but if there are other options I am open. Thanks!
 
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#3 ·
Thanks for the info. I do like the Acadia and even looked at them before. Very roomy and comfortable, it is just going in the wrong direction MPG wise with a sub 20 combined avg. Kind of reminds me of the Lexus GX which we also almost purchased, but again the MPG would kill me at 40k+ miles per year.

We estimated anything getting less than 25 mpg is going to cost us around $9k+ per yr, or about $4k-5k more per yr vs something that gets 32 mpg+. But I still need the space so I think I am pretty much limited to a very small group of options.

Thanks again.
 
#4 ·
Why do you "have to lease" if you are putting 40,000+ miles on the vehicle in 1-year?

Does this not work out to be more expensive than purchasing the car and selling it after 2-3 years?

Being you don't need a SUV, since your are looking at a Model S to use for deliveries, why don't you look at:
- Subaru Outback (mid 20s)
- Volvo XC70 (mid 20s)
- Volvo V60 (high 20s, low 30s)
- BMW 328d xDrive Wagon (mid 30s)
- Audi A7 TDI (low 30s...mid 20s with the base 3.0T engine)
- Lexus CT 200h (low 40s)

Must be nice to make deliveries in a "luxury" vehicle.
 
#6 ·
Why do you "have to lease" if you are putting 40,000+ miles on the vehicle in 1-year?

Does this not work out to be more expensive than purchasing the car and selling it after 2-3 years?

Being you don't need a SUV, since your are looking at a Model S to use for deliveries, why don't you look at:
- Subaru Outback (mid 20s)
- Volvo XC70 (mid 20s)
- Volvo V60 (high 20s, low 30s)
- BMW 328d xDrive Wagon (mid 30s)
- Audi A7 TDI (low 30s...mid 20s with the base 3.0T engine)
- Lexus CT 200h (low 40s)

Must be nice to make deliveries in a "luxury" vehicle.
Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, according to my accountant I definitely have to lease. I believe it has to do with where it needs to be in my financials. It is a budgeted expense. I am not a CPA and he has been a good accountant so I just take his advice.

I also have to partially wrap the vehicle with marketing material. Yes, due to the amount of driving and the fact that it is a multi use vehicle some of the luxury vehicles have been better fits. I do my deliveries, meet with clients, travel with clients and colleagues to conferences, etc.

My MDX has been bullet proof as was my Lexus RX, and due to the low depreciation they both leased MUCH better than a lesser expensive domestic. Oddly enough when I got the MDX, the BMW leased the best but I was concerned about reliability and pulling up to a customer in a vehicle with the blue and white propeller logo. But as it is more about budget and MPG's now a BMW may make sense.

I did take a look at the BMW wagon and really liked it. That is actually on the top of my list right now. With the incentives they are offering and the discounting on them, the lease is incredibly low for what you get. Plus, 40+ mpg is very nice in a vehicle with 53 cu ft of storage. Technically, I don't need an SUV but I do need to have 50 cu ft+ for storage. So, the sport wagon, even though it isn't an SUV,would fit, as would the Tesla with it's hatch back and 63 cu Ft of storage.


I don't know much about it but I think in the Fall the 2016 X5 will have an electric model of some sort. I test drove a 2015 yesterday and in the computer system the dealer had some "2016 x40e" models on order.
This would be a great fit. I am only worried that they will sell for MSRP +, which would probably push it out of our budget. But given that fuel costs are also part of the budget, it may work.

Thanks again for all of the info and suggestions. Right now the BMW all wheel drive diesel sport wagon seems to be the best fit. The demand on the Q5d has jumped a little and is currently fetching a premium locally so it may be pushing the budget now.

I looked at numerous domestics, and for the ones that would be a good fit MPG and size wise and how they are equipped, leasing is very poor right now.
 
#5 ·
I don't know much about it but I think in the Fall the 2016 X5 will have an electric model of some sort. I test drove a 2015 yesterday and in the computer system the dealer had some "2016 x40e" models on order.
 
#7 ·
I checked out the Audi, VW, Lexus and BMW options and while there were all nice, none of them evoked the same emotion as when my wife both first saw the MDX Advance in the showroom.

Had Acura gone the same route as Audi, VW, Infiniti, and BMW and added a 30+ mpg Diesel or Hybrid option I would just get another MDX.
 
#11 ·
Yes, I looked at one last week. Very nice vehicle, and efficient, but a little bland for my tastes. Seemed solid though. Dealer said it has the same engine as the Porsche Cayenne, so that is a plus. But, it came in around $67,000 when equipped like my MDX and leased for almost $1,000 per month.

I was recently suggested to look at a RR Discovery Sport (26 mpg) or the Evoque (30mpg), but I am concerned about their reliability and there isn't a dealer within 100 miles of me. At least with my Acura I can take it to the local Honda dealer for oil changes, etc.
 
#9 ·
I'd get a Tesla.

I looked at them before buying the MDX and it was a LOT more $$$ and the AWD model wasn't out yet but if I had to do it again I'd get one ... AWD with the rear-facing 3rd row option for occasional use with the kids. We don't even drive the MDX that much yet it's costing us about $100/week in gas .. GRRRRR ... I hate wasting all this money in gas and our next car will probably be electric. Here in Quebec we have close to the most expensive gas in North America, and close to the cheapest electricity. Tesla would cost next to nothing to run here, saving us probably $450/ month
 
#12 ·
My brother in law just ordered a Tesla 85 (NOT the one with insane mode).

I drove a loaner 70 that they gave him. Its pretty ridiculous. Its like driving a space ship AND everything "just works". If Apple made a car, the Tesla would be it.

And yeah, its expensive, but when looking at 53K for an MDX, the 70K base price of a Tesla isnt as far off as you would think. And even a base Tesla could probably give the quality and features of a 53K MDX a run for its money.
Good points. I may actually hold out for the Tesla X, or at least see it before I do anything. I loved the Tesla. I ALMOST put a deposit on one when we test drove an S85 (2WD) last year knowing that my MDX lease would mature before I could even get my hands on one. I agree, that car is ridiculously amazing. My wife said out of every car we have test driven, and I have test driven too many to count, or even owned, the Tesla is on a level of its own... and it was just a base S85 with tech. I agree. My lease, had I gone with the 85, would have been $1100 per month, but given that I am now spending about $600+ per month on fuel, that almost seems like a bargain.

The only thing that kind of concerns me about Tesla is the aggressive regenerative braking on icy/slick roads. I have heard that it can get away from you when you take your foot off the accelerator and it decelerates quickly.
 
#10 ·
My brother in law just ordered a Tesla 85 (NOT the one with insane mode).

I drove a loaner 70 that they gave him. Its pretty ridiculous. Its like driving a space ship AND everything "just works". If Apple made a car, the Tesla would be it.

And yeah, its expensive, but when looking at 53K for an MDX, the 70K base price of a Tesla isnt as far off as you would think. And even a base Tesla could probably give the quality and features of a 53K MDX a run for its money.
 
#13 ·
By the way, if I were in a warmer climate, I would be all over a Tesla pre-owned. Pre-owned 2013-2014 P85's are going for around $70-$75k, some even less. A Signature 2012 P85 is listed right now in Chicago for $69,700 with only 14,000 miles on it. I guess people are unloading the 2WD models and picking up the D's, especially in the colder climate areas.
 
#14 ·
How do you know your accountant has been good to you? That's something that's very difficult to confirm unless you get a second opinion of your finances. I'm a CPA (inactive since I left public accounting) and I've met some of the most ignorant people that have that license that I don't give it much merit. Regardless, it would be a rare situation that a 40k mile per year lease would make any sense.

The biggest problem with high mileage leases is that the metrics from the banks (Honda Finance, etc.) are not capable of handing that type of use. I would be very surprised if any would agree to that many miles in the first place and if they did the cost would be astronomically out of whack. Most manufacturer programs cap out around 20k miles a year, which means you'd be on the hook for mileage penalties above that or being forced to buy out the car on the tail end. If you buy out the car on the tail end, you're not getting the correct tax deduction throughout the lease because you're expensing the miles based on the lease contract (20k or whatever) but using it twice that amount.

My financial advice is to make sure your accountant understands how much your driving before you go this route. If he still recommends leasing, have him show you the numbers comparing to a purchase and all the other options for expensing the vehicle (mileage rates, 179 deduction, etc). If he's earning his keep, he would already have all that data available. If he say's he'll need to calculate it, that means he just blew you off and gave you an uneducated guess. Happens all the time. The proper way to calculate a lease vs buy is to spend a solid couple hours looking at the numbers and present a full comparison to the client. To just default to "leasing is better" is horse poopie.

To answer your car question, be wary of the diesels. I'm a fan of diesels but haven't bought any for my business (over 200 trucks/cars/suvs) in many years. The up-front cost, premium for diesel fuel, and additional maintenance just rarely makes sense these days. Just recently the fuel prices have come closer but I get the feeling it's temporary.

You might consider the new Pilot. It will be high 20's for hwy mpg and a really gives the MDX a run for its money in terms of features/value. I'd much rather put 40k miles a year on a Honda vs an Acura/Audi/etc. Also, the depreciation on the Audi will be very high compared to the Japanese brands. The Germans have strong resale for normal use mileage, but when you have a 2-3 year old model with 120k miles, the value is MUCH lower.
 
#15 ·
Thank you very much for the information. I appreciate the accounting feedback specifically as I have always been a little apprehensive about leasing. I can't say for sure if his advice has been sound on the leasing side. I only say that he has been good to me because from what I have experienced, he has always steered me right. One reason, is that in 2012 I was audited. In the end I had to pay 0. Actually the state owed me money because one of my vendors had me paying tax on items that we resell. Not that I got anything back, but I was just happy he kept me in the clear with the state and feds.

On the lease explanation, I was also an anti lease guy and wanted to purchase my vehicles, preferably a couple years old so I didn't have to eat the depreciation. I usually purchased imports, specifically Honda or Toyota so I was always able to put 150k+ miles on them then sell them. Maybe I misunderstood him, but part of the reason is because we are currently in the process of buying or possibly building a new building for my company, last time I leased we were in the process of buying a very expensive piece of equipment that we had to finance. I was told by him and another fellow franchisee accountant as well that it would be advisable to lease any new pieces of equipment, including a vehicle because of where the amount shows up on my financials. One is on the income statement, which is where they want it, and the other, if I purchase, is on the balance sheet which is where I don't want it.

Again, I don't know if that is 100% accurate but that is my understanding. Also, I am not set in stone on this. If I learn, or could be convinced that it would be better to purchase, I would be happy to go that route, specifically if I go with the Tesla so I could get the $7,500 tax credit , which I understand is only available if you purchase.

As to miles on my lease, the last two vehicles I leased had very high miles but in the end I made out OK. My Lexus RX350 was actually worth about $6k more than I owed at lease end, so I just bought it out and sold it. Lexus Finance would have killed me with the penalty for all of the miles, but it didn't matter. I just sold it and put the extra money down on my current MDX. I was actually in the same boat with my MDX. At lease end, Acura/Honda Finance would have killed me on the miles, but I just bought it out personally. Instead of selling it and pocketing the additional money since I only owed about $17k on it, I just kept it. When I come across a replacement, wife gets the MDX which will be our personal vehicle, we sell her '03 Pilot and I will drive the new one.

Also, thanks for the diesel info. When I first started looking, I was looking at the BMW 328d x Sport Wagon which I have been told can get 45-50 mpg. So, I was really just focusing on fuels costs more than anything. I am not in a hurry to do anything since I own the MDX now, I am just trying to do my due diligence.
 
#24 ·
I'm definitely curious to see how the new Pilot actually drives compared to the MDX. We were sure the Pilot would be our next vehicle in 2012 but after driving it, we were completely dissatisfied. The interior was also horrible. If they nail the interior and if it drives 80% as good as the MDX, they'll have a winner in that market.

I would bet the vast majority of buyers do not NEED SH-AWD anyway. Hell, even with snow tires on our MDX, my wife avoids driving in the snow at all cost. Mainly because of other knuckleheads on the road so I can't argue with her there.
 
#26 ·
So, I just heard that the Tesla X's first deliveries have been planned for August! So, I called Tesla Indy to see if I could get pricing and put a deposit on one. I figured if it was even close to the Model S, it would be worth it. The sales rep said still no pricing announced, but that there are already 25,000 accounted for with deposits so even if I put my deposit on one that day, I would not likely see it until 2018!!

So, my next choice after seeing one (not driving though as it was already spoken for and being delivered) was the BMW 328d xDrive Sport Wagon (31-43 mpg). Called the dealership to see about driving one. Planned to lease for 3 years, then turn in and revisit the Tesla or even the new MDX if it is more efficient. Maybe Model X production can keep up with demand, or demand wanes. So, the rep calls me back and says NO vehicles configured to my specs exist ...anywhere in the US! So, a deposit today gets me one in 3-4 months as production supposedly is halted for some season then starts back up.

So third choice was a BMW 328 XDrive Gran Turismo (22-33 mpg). Rep again calls me back with the news that none of these vehicles exist in US either, and if I put my deposit down today, in 3-4 months I could have one.

I guess the feature set throwing a monkey wrench in everything is one that came stock with my MDX Advance. Blind Spot detection, collision mitigation and adaptive cruise control. I guess German car fans aren't big on those features. Go figure. After experiencing the past 5 years with them, I couldn't imagine having a car with out them. On more than one occasion, it has saved me from a potential bad situation, in one case a very bad one. Just that one incident alone was more than enough to make whatever premium it costs well worth it.

Audi lease rates were horrendous, VW as well. No RR dealers anywhere near me. Lexus hybrid RX was an option, (28-32), but I used to have an RX350 and didn't really like how it drove. Way too floaty. Plus their hybrid $$$ premium is way higher than the difference between BMW's diesel and gas models on the sport wagon. So the search continues.
 
#33 ·
Audi lease rates were horrendous
This is true, mainly because they're super conservative with their residuals. In most cases, at the end of a typical Audi lease you'll have equity so the high payments weren't wasted.

You might consider the Highlander Hybrid. It drives better than the RX, the '13 redesign really improve the entire package, and a Ltd Platinum is about as well equipped as you can buy a car these days. Better residual with super high miles down the road too.
 
#28 ·
After seeing all of the people I know with German cars (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes), Im not sure I would *want* all those safety tech things in one of their vehicles. They still cant get window regulators, damper motors, etc. right even after all these years. Imagine some fairly complicated electronics.

Hell I had a friend at work that had to lemon law his brand new Porsche 911 because there were so many electrical issues even a tech flown in from Germany couldnt figure them out!
 
#32 ·
After seeing all of the people I know with German cars (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes), Im not sure I would *want* all those safety tech things in one of their vehicles. They still cant get window regulators, damper motors, etc. right even after all these years. Imagine some fairly complicated electronics.

Hell I had a friend at work that had to lemon law his brand new Porsche 911 because there were so many electrical issues even a tech flown in from Germany couldnt figure them out!
Very good points. While the Germans definitely seem to struggle with electronics, they do have a good grasp on efficiency and functionality. Audi, VW and BMW all have all wheel drive vehicles that get 35+ mpg, some even closer to 45-50. All packaged in vehicles with tons of space/storage, good fit and finish and attractive style. Now if they could just get the Japanese to handle their electronics, they would have the perfect vehicles.

That's crazy about the Tesla, but I figured the X would be incredibly popular.

I've read that BMW wagons hold their residual value very well, and your post outlines why. Very small supply and demand initially but they do very well in the used car market.

Agree won't get a car without blind spot warning.

Lexus is going to redesign their RX, new version coming out this Fall with a rather aggressive spindle grille design.
Interesting about the RX redesign. I was not aware of that. While my '07 RX wasn't my favorite, I would feel much more comfortable with their reliability. It's only for 3 yrs, so may be worth revisiting.

I would avoid the Tesla. Infrastructure isn't there yet for really using it as a daily driver. I think in theory it would work, but in practice you are getting real close to range problems.

The real question is if you Acura so much why not another MDX or the little brother RDX? I just settled on the MDX after long consideration. Reliability won out. I was thinking about the x5d then friends with them say they are great during warranty.
I do love my MDX. Not so much the RDX. We got one as a loner when I was in for my 60k service and we were not impressed. The engine seemed to struggle as well on the interstate, plus none of the safety features I became accustomed to. Now that was a 2014, so maybe things changed in the 2015-16. If I were going to keep the vehicle after the lease term, I would definitely avoid any of the German offerings. However, you would think Acura could come up with something in the 35-45 mpg range if the Germans can.
 
#29 ·
That's crazy about the Tesla, but I figured the X would be incredibly popular.

I've read that BMW wagons hold their residual value very well, and your post outlines why. Very small supply and demand initially but they do very well in the used car market.

Agree won't get a car without blind spot warning.

Lexus is going to redesign their RX, new version coming out this Fall with a rather aggressive spindle grille design.
 
#31 ·
I would avoid the Tesla. Infrastructure isn't there yet for really using it as a daily driver. I think in theory it would work, but in practice you are getting real close to range problems.

The real question is if you Acura so much why not another MDX or the little brother RDX? I just settled on the MDX after long consideration. Reliability won out. I was thinking about the x5d then friends with them say they are great during warranty.
 
#36 ·
So, I almost ordered a bimmer 3 Series diesel sport wagon and had a last minute change of heart. I have had such good luck with Hondas over the years that I am going to wait until the '16 Pilot is available. The features are exactly what we were looking for and the MPG's, while not what I was hoping for, are better than what I get right now. So, I am pretty much trading MPG's for reliability.

If it is even close to my MDX in terms of the drive I will probably opt for an Elite. If it isn't, I will hold off on doing anything until I see if Acura tries to come up with something to put some space between the MDX and Pilot. I just can't image that Acura is going to allow the MDX to look like the Pilot's less capable, less luxurious little brother. I was REALLY impressed with the video reviews of the new Pilot.

Either way, the Tesla X is not going to be available anytime soon and I have to get into something by June 2016, preferable by the end of this year at the latest. Which may be good timing, because the supercharger map for '16 is looking pretty good with 98% US population coverage within 100 miles.

Reliability has always been the must have for us, and I just don't see any of the other options I was looking at coming close to Honda's combination of reliability, feature set and safety, not to mention attractive residuals to keep the lease payments under budget.

Thanks again for all of the input.
 
#37 ·
Hit up the piloteer.org forums. Ive been reading them for a while, especially the model specific forum for the new Pilot.

They are out there now, a lot in CA and there are people reporting that theyve seen them, bought them, etc. The prices right now are pretty outrageous (basically window sticker, some charging even MORE than window sticker)
 
#39 ·
After you mentioned that I called the Honda dealer to see what they had in stock, and sure enough they had a new Pilot. It was one of the lower trim levels, but still very nice. I can see a big difference between the fit and finish of my MDX, but I haven't had a chance to see one of the higher end models like the Touring or Elite. I can see why they will get sticker +. Every Pilot and HR-V they had is sold out and sold out quickly. Within days 15 HR-V's were gone. They didn't even have time to put them on the lot.

I had mentioned a Subaru Legacy or Outback earlier, did you look into them? If I didn't need a 3rd row of seats that would have been on my shopping list. Safe, reliable, with highly-rated safety tech
Yes, I have a friend with a '12 and I looked at them. I did like it, but it seemed to be a notch below Acura in terms of Fit and Finish, kind of like the Highlander. At least the one I saw. Personally I would prefer the WR-X, but that's not going to happen. lol But, I am told that 2016 will bring big changes to the Outback, so I may check it out before I do anything. Nice vehicle though.

Funny thing is that I am having a really hard time going "backwards" or the way I perceive it. I went from a Pilot to a Lexus, from Lexus to the MDX and each time it felt like an upgrade. So now, I drive Highlanders, '15 Pilots, Jeeps, etc. and they all seem like I am going backward. I shouldn't care so much, it's just hard to do.

I have to say though that driving the new aluminum 2015 F-150 was an eye opener. Extremely nice interior. Shockingly nice. While it's not on my short list, I couldn't help but test drive one when I drove by the Ford dealer and saw a 2015 Platinum on the lot. What a truck. If I was in the market for a truck, I would be all over that one, and I would have never thought that before. It had every feature that I have heard of being in a vehicle regardless of class, and more. It even had Massaging seats??? Crazy. but, I digress.

So, hopefully the hype dies down a bit so I can see a Pilot Elite, or even a Touring in person. Or maybe Acura steps up to the plate and one ups the Pilot. Either way, I have a little time to decide now so I am going to just keep driving until something really grabs me like my MDX did. Thanks again for the input. Much appreciated.
 
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