[vdubdave]

First time posting here and reading the other post about draining and refilling the diff and transfer gear oil. I picked up a 2008 MDX that has had almost all services done except the transmission, txf case and differential. I went to pick up 3 quarts of rear diff fluid from Acura and they gave me 08200-9008A (Transmission oil). I asked about 08200-9007A and they told that this new oil supercedes the old DPSF and they showed me in their computer as well that it has indeed superceded it. Has anyone else run across this yet? I don't want to run the risk of damaging the rear diff.
Thank you

 

[skirmich]

Grab a bottle of DW-1, Look at the rear label and read the part that clearly states "NOT FOR USE IN AWD DIFFERENTIAL".
Unless AWD DPSF has been discontinued it still is the ONLY FLUID to be used in SH-AWD Diffs, Find another dealership.

 

[vdubdave]

That's what I thought. Just verifying that I'm not crazy.
Thanks

 

[skirmich]

That dealership is bad...
They probably showed you that DW-1 Superseded ATF Z1 application and came to the conclusion it should also work for SH-AWD diffs since they were filled with ATF Z1 before AWD DPSF was created in 2011. In any case DW-1 is not designed for SH-AWD duty so you will need to find the right AWD DPSF 08200-9007A..

They will then try to sell you "08200-9007" but again that is a different oil altogether (DPSF "Dual Pump System Fluid).
The "A" in 08200-9007A is what makes it SH-AWD Fluid.
If the bottle does not look like this:

Then its not meant to be used in the SH-AWD Diff.

 

[Wanderlust]

Not to pile on, but I put all this blather in the wrong thread:

08200-9008A is ATF DW-1, which supersedes ATF-Z1 ( which is no longer produced ). So that's the right fluid for your transmission.

ATF-Z1 was also the fluid originally specified for rear diff in early SH-AWD units such as 2008 MDX, but for that application, Acura DPSF 08200-9007A is the correct replacement. Don't use DW-1 in the rear diff!

DPSF stands for Dual Pump System Fluid, and AFAIK it is now used for all Acura AWD systems except the 1st-gen MDXs that use VTM-4 fluid. That rear diff is a very different design.

And yes, this is confusing!

But you want Acura All-Wheel Drive Fluid ( DPSF ) 08200-9007A for your 2008 MDX SH-AWD rear differential.

 

[Wanderlust]

They will then try to sell you "08200-9007" but again that is a different oil altogether (DPSF "Dual Pump System Fluid).
The "A" in 08200-9007A is what makes it SH-AWD Fluid.

Well, sorta. Honda dealers will happily put DPF-II ( Dual Pump Fluid II ) 08200-9007 in the rear diffs of 2016+ Honda Pilots, which have exactly the same SH-AWD rear diffs as 2016+ MDXs. I know because they did it to mine, but I have since upgraded my proletariat Pilot Touring to Acura status with 08200-9007A. :grin:

And I can use the same fluid in my wife's 2014 MDX. Score!

But I still need VTM-4 fluid for my kids' hand-me-down 1st-gen MDXs.

 

[vdubdave]

Thanks guys for your insights. I questioned the parts guy and should have stuck with my gut reaction.

 

[ECR]

Top Secret:
Dual pump fluid is the same fluid as SH-AWD fluid
But SHAWD fluid costs more.
Shhhhhh


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[skirmich]

Top Secret:
Dual pump fluid is the same fluid as SH-AWD fluid
But SHAWD fluid costs more.
Shhhhhh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless they specifically intended for the AWD DPSF to look and smell different than DPSF? Its not the same fluid.
Dual Pump System Fluid: Darker Color, Engine oil like smell
AWD DPSF: Caramel Color, Synthetic Oil like smell.

The main give-away is color.. They both look different.

 

[ECR]

Unless they specifically intended for the AWD DPSF to look and smell different than DPSF? Its not the same fluid.
Dual Pump System Fluid: Darker Color, Engine oil like smell
AWD DPSF: Caramel Color, Synthetic Oil like smell.

The main give-away is color.. They both look different.

So if you closed your eyes you can smell the difference between regular oil and synthetic oil?


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[skirmich]

Have you used Synthetic Oil ever? The smell of Synthetic Oil and Dino Oil is vastly different..

Even then we are talking specifically about an oil that the only diffference for Honda is just a Letter in its product number.

If this was any other Oil yeah it's just a higher priced oil like how they rename DW-1 or Engine Oil or P/S Oil, Etc..

But since DPSF was specifically designed for the CR-V AWD system and AWD DPSF was designed to replace DW-1 use in SH-AWD diff? and the Fact they look nothing alike makes me believe they cannot be the same Oil just rebranded like the other fluids.

If you grab a bottle of Honda DW-1 and Acura DW-1 the fluid smell and look exactly the same, DPSF and AWD DPSF do not.

 

[Wanderlust]

I briefly considered making a remark about distinguishing "his" and "hers" KY lubricants in the dark, but I decided that would be over-the-top...

Oops, I said it anyway. >

 

[[email protected]]

Don't want to start trouble, but I will relate my experience. Bought a used 2011 Tech last January. Read about the differences in the fluids. Ordered diff fluid from Amazon and received Honda DPSF-II (08200-9007). Was concerned, so I ordered diff fluid from an on-line Acura parts dealer and received the 08200-9007A fluid. Other than the labels on the bottles, the fluids looked, smelled, and felt the same. I could not distinguish the difference apart from the labels. This was in the Feb-March 2017 timeframe.

Having worked as a tier one supplier engineer to the automotive industry for decades, it would have been an absolute "no-no" to have two completely different items with the same part number except for one suffix. Even part numbers with the same numbers, but a different order (such as 1234 vs. 1243) causes problems. It would be such a problem, that new completely different part numbers would be issued just to eliminate the problem.

I don't know where this leaves the discussion, but maybe the dealerships are not trying to mislead the consumer on this issue.

 

[skirmich]

That is weird.. Unless something else have changed, both fluids are different...

This is AWD DPSF, You can tell in this picture that the fluid look Caramel in Color:

This is DPSFII (Picture is from a Honda Element but uses the same AWD as the CR-V = Same Oil) the fluid is darker:

I also got DPSFII instead of AWD DPSF from Honda, Looking from the side of the bottle you will never know the fluid is different. Could you show us the fluid in a transparent container? There is not a lot of pictures available to compare.

 

[ECR]

I'm not trying to stir up an argument either Im seriously only on this site to help out other acura enthusiasts.

As you can tell I'm hardly ever on this site. I don't wana say what kind of acura experience I have publicly but lets just say I would never steer you wrong.

So back on topic AWD and Dual pump fluids actually is a pinkish color when new and light caramel color when used, that Honda Element's rear diff fluid coming out looks like somebody put VTM or ATF fluid in there? Its bright red in color.
And did you know the older SH-AWD RL's use ATF for the rear diff? Yes I know its confusing



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[skirmich]

DPSF has a dark brownish color, it looks like Slightly burned ATF.
This is another shot of DPSF and the CR-Vs have never used ATF Fluid for the rear diff, it has always been DPSF this is the color of DPSF.

While VTM4 looks almost ATF like but with a deeper red tone:

DW-1 or ATF-Z1 has a cherry like color, very noticeable as its bright almost fluorescent..
The best I can describe it is using this chart:

ATF looks like the middle and right drops while DPSF looks like the used ATF in the left:

AWD DPSF (SH-AWD) Diff has its OWN UNIQUE COLOR.. Caramel. So it would be nice to see the sample of DPSFII [email protected] got to see if Honda have updated the fluid to be 1/1 to AWD DPSF.

 

[skirmich]

It would not surprise me if Honda has indeed replaced DPSFII with AWD DPSF but it will surprise me if Honda ditched AWD DPSF in favor of DPSFII considering the SH-AWD diff is more sophisticated than the one in the CR-V and DPSFII is a very, very old Fluid.. AWD DPSF was introduced in late 2011.

The main differences between a CR-V and SH-AWD diffs?
-CR-V is 100% PART TIME! It only works when it senses slippage, The oil is less stressed.
-SH-AWD is 100% FULL TIME It works all the time regardless of load and speed thus the oil should, Oil is stressed all the time.

-CR-V has a direct drive diff which means there is no diff action, when one wheel/s need power the clutch packs engage and power is sent to the wheel/s that need it with no degree in speed difference it can only engage or disengage the wheel/s.
-SH-AWD diff is full time which means the clutch packages are holding a set of planetary gears to give it proportional power ratio front to back in different degrees all the time. This means the fluid is not only in charge of the clutch pack protection but also has to withstand the pressure of the planetary gears.

I sincerely cannot fathom DPSFII being a suitable Oil for SH-AWD duty when the CR-V diff is vastly inferior.

 

[neoshi]

I think you mean DPFII not DPSFII, which was supposed to have been released in 2015 but still can't be found.

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[skirmich]

Yeah the only DPSF available.

 

[[email protected]]

I will try to get pictures of the fluids that I have. Unfortunately it will be a while because I am having carpal tunnel issues.

Skirmich, I do want to thank you for all the information you provide to the forums. Your info, pictures, and suggestions has helped me a lot.

Honda/Acura make some great vehicles IMHO, but their fluids can be confusing. They have reasons for their formulations that cannot be ignored, but there are alternatives in most cases. I am a huge Valvoline & Lucus fan, but I will use the Honda/Acura rear diff fluid until there is something better available.