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keremoner said:
Better than 2/3 of the people remember him as great. I guess it is the republicans and independents vs the democrats. Hmmmm, who might be the blind partisans here??? ( Hint: This is not a trick question)
I'm sure 2/3 regarded George Wallace, Strom Thurman, Robert Byrd, Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, David Duke, ect, ect as 'great'... so what?:confused: The people that they screwed, (double meaning for Thurman) did not think they were great, and it has nothing to do with ideology. It's a matter of survival... To everyone else, most dont care because it doesn't affect them.
 

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xfactor said:
I'm sure 2/3 regarded George Wallace, Strom Thurman, Robert Byrd, Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, David Duke, ect, ect as 'great'... so what?:confused: The people that they screwed, (double meaning for Thurman) did not think they were great, and it has nothing to do with ideology. It's a matter of survival... To everyone else, most dont care because it doesn't affect them.
I'm sorry, I know I'm not in your shoes, but I cannot put Reagan in the same class as George Wallace, Strom Thurman, Robert Byrd, Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, and David Duke.
Sounds to me like you were personally negatively affected by govt. policies from the Reagan era, that's too bad. However, was it his stance on these issues, or was it the bureaucracy at the time that affected you? I think a lot of people get affected by govt. policies that are not always seen as "fair." Some govt. policies are even ridiculous, for example, when I was drafted into the U.S. Army (even though not a citizen who couldn't vote or legally have the right to bear arms) I was given an M16 and told to go after Charlie Cong. Seems to support DaleB's position that government intelligence is an oxymoron.
Anyway, things happen to us and we have to decide for ourselves how to get over it or it will destroy us personally and those around us.
I hope life has positively changed for you since then.
 

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xfactor said:
I'm sure 2/3 regarded George Wallace, Strom Thurman, Robert Byrd, Trent Lott, Jesse Helms, David Duke, ect, ect as 'great'... so what?
Everyone has their own opinion. During Jesse Helms' first two Senatorial campaigns (1972 & 1978), I worked as a volunteer in his campaign office making phone calls, etc. He was a gentleman always, and beloved by most of the people in his state (except the newspapers). Once the Congressional Club (later the NATIONAL Congressional Club) took over running his campaigns, the whole Jesse Helms thing kinda went to hell. I couldn't stand that Congressional Club group!
 

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frostyra said:

Everyone has their own opinion. During Jesse Helms' first two Senatorial campaigns (1972 & 1978), I worked as a volunteer in his campaign office making phone calls, etc. He was a gentleman always, and beloved by most of the people in his state (except the newspapers). .
Wow, a 'gentleman' (your words) thinks, believes, and says the following...

* “Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here,” Helms said. “He’d better have a bodyguard.”

* "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your
daughters, in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races."

* from the Senate floor, Helms sowed hatred and called names: The University of North Carolina was "the University of Negroes and Communists." (Capital Times, 11/22/94) Black
civil rights activists were "Communists and sex perverts." (Copley News Service, 8/23/01)

* Of civil rights protests Helms wrote, "The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights." (WRAL-TV commentary,
1963)

* And the man ABC News now describes as a "conservative icon" (8/22/01) in 1993 sang "Dixie" in an elevator to Carol Moseley-Braun, the first African-American woman elected to the Senate, bragging, "I'm going to make her cry. I'm going to sing Dixie until she cries." (Chicago Sun-Times, 8/5/93)

* More recently, when a caller to CNN's Larry King Live show praised guest Jesse Helms for "everything you've done to help keep down the niggers," Helms' response was to salute the camera and say, "Well, thank you, I think." (Wilmington Star-News, 9/16/95)


There are many more quotes, but I don't have the time to get them... Thanks frostyra for being honest and telling me what you really think of us. Anyone who support a bigot like him should be exposed. I'm sorry you support such hatred. I know now to never turn my back on you. I can't say i'm surprised, I'd guess more of you on this forum share the same sentiments, but don't want to show your real colors...


:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Reagan, Reconsidered

Links ok, but gotta be a member..... :( Links for the rest of us - Reagan, Reconsidered
GREAT articles! Thanks for the interesting reading, these have many more examples of why many people don't, nor did, hold Reagan in high regard.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
keremoner said:
Better than 2/3 of the people remember him as great. I guess it is the republicans and independents vs the democrats. Hmmmm, who might be the blind partisans here??? ( Hint: This is not a trick question)
Where do you get your "2/3 of the people" figure? This isn't a trick question, either.

Just as there are different opinions among the members of any group, so it is in political parties, too. Not every republican was enamored of him, nor every demo opposed him-just check out the votes for issues while he was in office. The same still happens today, that's why votes are not always down party lines. This helps our political process work; not perfectly, nor is it pretty, but it does work to a degree.

Does this thought make me an independent?
 

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catzx6 said:


Where do you get your "2/3 of the people" figure? This isn't a trick question, either.

Just as there are different opinions among the members of any group, so it is in political parties, too. Not every republican was enamored of him, nor every demo opposed him-just check out the votes for issues while he was in office. The same still happens today, that's why votes are not always down party lines. This helps our political process work; not perfectly, nor is it pretty, but it does work to a degree.

Does this thought make me an independent?
I guess you weren't paying much attention. Just check the latest popularity polls. Also two landslide wins should've told you something.
 

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keremoner said:
.... Just check the latest popularity polls. Also two landslide wins should've told you something.
Yeah, it told me something alright... It told me...

1. How ignorant of the facts people are.
2. How little people regard civil/human rights.
3. How people are concerned about what only affects them.

I can go on and on...
 

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xfactor said:


Yeah, it told me something alright... It told me...

1. How ignorant of the facts people are.
2. How little people regard civil/human rights.
3. How people are concerned about what only affects them.

I can go on and on...
First, people are not ignorant of the facts at all. I thought you were old enough to remember the malaise this country was in when Reagan got elected. We were a defeated nation with our heads down, moral low, and suffering greatly under very harsh economic conditions. Reagan changed all of that 180 degrees during his tenure. I am sorry to hear that you'd probably have prefered someone supported by the likes of NAACP crooks than likes of CORE (african americans who actually believe that blacks are just as capable as the rest of the society and do not need to be 'slaves' of whites -- afterall relying on government is nothing but a form of slavery)
My advice to you is, try being an independent thinker and don't let likes of Jesse Jackson enslave you. You ARE equal to anyone else in this country.
 

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keremoner said:


First, people are not ignorant of the facts at all. I thought you were old enough to remember the malaise this country was in when Reagan got elected. We were a defeated nation with our heads down, moral low, and suffering greatly under very harsh economic conditions. Reagan changed all of that 180 degrees during his tenure. I am sorry to hear that you'd probably have prefered someone supported by the likes of NAACP crooks than likes of CORE (african americans who actually believe that blacks are just as capable as the rest of the society and do not need to be 'slaves' of whites -- afterall relying on government is nothing but a form of slavery)
My advice to you is, try being an independent thinker and don't let likes of Jesse Jackson enslave you. You ARE equal to anyone else in this country.
I don't know what posts you are reading. I never mentioned NAACP, CORE, or Jesse Jackson... :confused:

What the hell are you talking about?:confused:
 

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xfactor said:


Yeah, it told me something alright... It told me...

1. How ignorant of the facts people are.
2. How little people regard civil/human rights.
3. How people are concerned about what only affects them.

I can go on and on...
Xfactor, time to leave this 'discussion' as I see it as a waste of your time and energy . . .

come on over to the NBA thread, I could use your help in fending off the fair-weather, band-wagon populace over there . . . :4:
 

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socalJD said:


Xfactor, time to leave this 'discussion' as I see it as a waste of your time and energy . . .

come on over to the NBA thread, I could use your help in fending off the fair-weather, band-wagon populace over there . . . :4:
Good point socalJD. I guess I'm the idiot for trying to 'talk to a rock'... enjoy your little worlds guys...:headshake
 

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xfactor said:


I don't know what posts you are reading. I never mentioned NAACP, CORE, or Jesse Jackson... :confused:
What the hell are you talking about?:confused:
What your posts insinuate is that Reagan was against civil rights and other similar legislation. That is flat out wrong and in the spirit of what you'd expect to hear from likes of NAACP and Jesse Jackson.
 

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keremoner said:


What your posts insinuate is that Reagan was against civil rights and other similar legislation. That is flat out wrong and in the spirit of what you'd expect to hear from likes of NAACP and Jesse Jackson.
So what you are saying is that Reagan favored/voted for the civil rights acts? That the record is just a fabrication, a trick, a ruse to fool us all, huh? ->http://www.infoplease.com/spot/civilrightstimeline1.html

Study and learn, PLEASE!

For the record, I am no fan of Mr. Jackson. The NAACP? does it even exist? As I stated before, I can think for my self, and do not regurgitate partisan rhetoric...

Please stay within the parameters of the discussion, reply with facts, and stop bringing in superfluous info, (your supporting my assertion of the ignorance of facts)... Its tantamount to a written form 'Teret's Syndrome" ...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
xfactor said:


... Its tantamount to a written form 'Teret's Syndrome" ...
:19: :21: :19: :21:
 

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xfactor said:


So what you are saying is that Reagan favored/voted for the civil rights acts? That the record is just a fabrication, a trick, a ruse to fool us all, huh? ->http://www.infoplease.com/spot/civilrightstimeline1.html

Study and learn, PLEASE!

For the record, I am no fan of Mr. Jackson. The NAACP? does it even exist? As I stated before, I can think for my self, and do not regurgitate partisan rhetoric...

Please stay within the parameters of the discussion, reply with facts, and stop brining in superfluous info, (your supporting my assertion of the ignorance of facts)... Its tantamount to a written form 'Teret's Syndrome" ...
You are so ignorant that you are not even funny. Reagan never dealt with civil rights legislation. Unless of course you mean bloated wasteful entitlements as civil rights!!
 

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keremoner said:


You are so ignorant that you are not even funny. Reagan never dealt with civil rights legislation. Unless of course you mean bloated wasteful entitlements as civil rights!!
Again, this is the last time I'll emplore you to READ. The link I provided plainly explains how congress had to OVERRIDE HIS VETO OF THE BILL!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1988:
Civil Rights Restoration Act-Veto Override

Bill Number: S 557 Roll Call Number: 0044
Issue: Civil Rights
Date: 03/22/1988


Vote to override President Reagan's March 16 veto, of the bill to provide broad coverage of four civil rights laws by making clear that, if one entity of an institution receives federal funds, the entire institution must abide by the anti-discrimination laws.

S 557: A bill to restore the broad scope of coverage and to clarify the application of Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, the Age Discrimination Act of 1975, and title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Vote to override President Reagan's March 16 veto, of the bill to provide broad coverage of four civil rights laws by making clear that, if one entity of an institution receives federal funds, the entire institution must abide by the anti-discrimination laws. The bill would overturn a ruling by the Supreme Court in Grove City College v. Bell and applied to Title IX of the 1972 Education Act which barred discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs, and three other laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of race, age or handicap. A “nay” was a vote supporting the president's position.

Veto overridden 292-133: R 52-123; D 240-10 on 03/22/1988. A two-thirds majority of those present and voting [284 in this case] of both houses is required to override a veto.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can you read? What the hell is wrong with you? I don't have time or energy to educate you... I won't even get into his documented positions on housing and voting discrimination. I've lost all hope of you learning...

Entitlements!? -- A teret bleep again?

Damn, Im 'talking to the rock' again..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
keremoner said:


I guess you weren't paying much attention. Just check the latest popularity polls. Also two landslide wins should've told you something.
You believe in "Popularity polls?" If you do, then you're falling into the spin doctors' trap of them manipulating your opinion. As I believe you stated in another post, "try being an independent thinker," maybe you should try it, too.
 
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