Acura MDX SUV Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ya, I know there's plenty of info re: the 652's, but maybe someone can someone can assist so I dont have to search thru all the chat

I have a base X, and I plan to change out all 4 doors to 652's
My 2 Questions are:

1) Is the sub worth changing out if I dont do an amp upgrade. Will the Inf. 10" reference fit, If not, what's the best replacement?

2) Re. the tweets, what should I swap out there, and do I need crossover or capacitor or what?Thanx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
I am the thorn in the side of all the audio upgrade posters on this site.

As lousy as both the base and Bose audio systems are, they are both component speaker systems, with seperately located tweeters.

You have a premium vehicle. You should replace the speakers with a premium speaker set.

Any high-end sound set will do. Never mind the ohm rating and sensitivity levels. These issues are not as important as the fundamental quality characteristics of the speaker set. This is what creates recognition by the industry as premium or high-end status. Not always, but usually, the price factor will reflect this engineering and manufacturing distinction.

If you go to any recongnized install shop, anywhere in North America, you will not ask for a high end system and be given the Infinity 652.5i

You do not want to add mirror pod tweeters to this speaker model, unless you parallel the auxillary tweeter to the tweeter crossover output, and even then the frequency slope is not adjustmentable for the proper attenuation of dual tweeters (technically yes, but you'd need to be familiar w/ cross-over design mathematics)

There is some science associated with this art of audio upgrading - you don't just replace speakers with an incompatible (read as "co-axial") set and throw in an extra set of tweeters to fill in the tweeter mount space.

My suggestion: go to three busy install shops, ask for recommendations on the top three upper-end speaker component sets, write down the brand and model names. Take the model most recommended, hunt down the best price on the web (maybe 1/2 price or 60% of retail), ask the shops you interviewed to match the price (or at least come very close to it), and give your business to the first one that can match the price. If they cant match, then purchase wherever you found the lowest price and have a 4th shop install it.

It is important that you have these professionally installed (if you are inexperienced) as you don't want to experiment with such a new and valuable vehicle. You may ask about having dynamat installed in the doors (a must in a '01, in an '02 it would be just more of the same, but less enhancement) while they have the panels off, as it will save on the labor to do it at the same time.

To prove my point; you will not find a co-axial speaker (such as the Infinity 652.5i) in any premium or prestige vehicle, with or without the optional premium sound upgrade. I ask anyone to point out an OEM co-axial front speaker in a $30K+ car.

In this case, ignorance is truly bliss. If you take your MDX to a franchised audio dealer and say, "I feel I have a very nice car, please install something that matches the quality of this car", you'd be better off than searching for posts on the 652.5i's.

One set of premium component speakers should cost less than 1% of the purchase value of your MDX. You needn't be concerned with the $59 bargains you will inevitibly find on the web.

Okay, I need to stop before I get too excited. Time to get a real life. Anyhow, just trying to help. Good luck on your process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,732 Posts
Many of us have done the Bose swtich with Infinitys and are very pleased with the improvement.
Can we do better? Obviously, and with well informed members like yourself we know we will have guidance in that direction if and when we choose it. I appreciate your recommendations. But I can also assure you those 'coaxial' speakers produce better sound than what Bose protends to be a component system. The system is only as good as the individual components, and in this case they are crap. I know where to get quality components should I choose to do so. And such a quality system properly installed would be closer to 2 or 3% of vehicle cost. Still worth it, if one chooses to cross that bridge. Again, I see the 'swap' out as an improvement, not the best possible. (and includes Dynamat on speaker mtg. baffles, as well as inside the door).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
Infinity(s) are NOT Kraco....

...nor are they the ADS or MB Quart (or whatever is the 'ulitimate' speaker du jour).

I don't want to start a flame fest, but I have heard LOTS of REAAALLLY BAAAAD 'component' installations. Some times the quality of the drivers themselves is poor, but, admitedly more often it is some hack who can't keep their wires straight and messes up the phase and/or crossover.

Despite what Acura DEALERS seem to think, the INVOICE on the MDX (touring&Nav) is $35402 -- 1% of that is a piddling $354. Considering that even pretty run of mill <a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-myGrq2O5fPT/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=430&I=130TST110&o=m&a=0"> tweeters</a> are gonna cost $50 you would spend alot and might not be very happy with the result.

Yeah, I have seen MB Quart "component kits" around $200, but you'd need more skill to install those compared to the coaxial Infinities, and I'm still not sure they'd sound THAT much better.

My main beef is not with Bruce, it is with Acura & Bose for shoving THE CRAP off in ANY vehicle, especially the "step up" model from a luxury car company!

Rest assured the whole world does not think that "component speakers are the only way to go".
"Often many newer cars have acceptable coaxial speakers in acceptable mounting locations." -- http://www.blaupunktusa.com/install/install_syst_plan.html
They go on to say that upgrades to components can (will) be sound better, but COAXIAL can be quite good.
http://www.m-emag.com/columns/columns.html?columnID=40
(see page 2 as well)
http://www.cdtaudio.com/pdf/Learn_About.pdf

Coaxials from big companies that invest in engineering are an EXCELLENT value. Easy to install, high quality compoments, much improved sound.

If you want to put an extra couple of hundred over & above the cost of Infinity & dynamat it would be interesting to A/B MDXs with a compomenent systems
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,713 Posts
TheyCallMeBruce said:
I am the thorn in the side of all the audio upgrade posters on this site.

As lousy as both the base and Bose audio systems are, they are both component speaker systems, with seperately located tweeters.

You have a premium vehicle. You should replace the speakers with a premium speaker set.

Any high-end sound set will do. Never mind the ohm rating and sensitivity levels. These issues are not as important as the fundamental quality characteristics of the speaker set. This is what creates recognition by the industry as premium or high-end status. Not always, but usually, the price factor will reflect this engineering and manufacturing distinction.

If you go to any recongnized install shop, anywhere in North America, you will not ask for a high end system and be given the Infinity 652.5i

You do not want to add mirror pod tweeters to this speaker model, unless you parallel the auxillary tweeter to the tweeter crossover output, and even then the frequency slope is not adjustmentable for the proper attenuation of dual tweeters (technically yes, but you'd need to be familiar w/ cross-over design mathematics)

There is some science associated with this art of audio upgrading - you don't just replace speakers with an incompatible (read as "co-axial") set and throw in an extra set of tweeters to fill in the tweeter mount space.

My suggestion: go to three busy install shops, ask for recommendations on the top three upper-end speaker component sets, write down the brand and model names. Take the model most recommended, hunt down the best price on the web (maybe 1/2 price or 60% of retail), ask the shops you interviewed to match the price (or at least come very close to it), and give your business to the first one that can match the price. If they cant match, then purchase wherever you found the lowest price and have a 4th shop install it.

It is important that you have these professionally installed (if you are inexperienced) as you don't want to experiment with such a new and valuable vehicle. You may ask about having dynamat installed in the doors (a must in a '01, in an '02 it would be just more of the same, but less enhancement) while they have the panels off, as it will save on the labor to do it at the same time.

To prove my point; you will not find a co-axial speaker (such as the Infinity 652.5i) in any premium or prestige vehicle, with or without the optional premium sound upgrade. I ask anyone to point out an OEM co-axial front speaker in a $30K+ car.

In this case, ignorance is truly bliss. If you take your MDX to a franchised audio dealer and say, "I feel I have a very nice car, please install something that matches the quality of this car", you'd be better off than searching for posts on the 652.5i's.

One set of premium component speakers should cost less than 1% of the purchase value of your MDX. You needn't be concerned with the $59 bargains you will inevitibly find on the web.

Okay, I need to stop before I get too excited. Time to get a real life. Anyhow, just trying to help. Good luck on your process.
Different people choose how to spend their money differently. Some may think $3000 wheel upgrades are worth it to them, some a $3000 sound system, but it all comes down to value for the amount of money someone is willing to spend. Some people are just willing to spend $200 to get an incremental improvement of the sound system, and that's good for them. If we all got the high-end everything because the MDX is a "high-end" truck, we'd all need to include "very broke" in our signatures:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
MDXtrous said:

If we all got the high-end everything because the MDX is a "high-end" truck, we'd all need to include "very broke" in our signatures:p
Ah, . . . no. I think you missed the point.
Its called a systemic quality match. Most industries and individuals follow these practices. Yes, I guess you could add a number of bumper stickers to a freshly christened Bently, and you can overlay all the interior panels of a salvaged 1973 Toyota Corona in hand-rubbed Cherry Oak and Italian leathers. Some people do, but most people don't intentially inflict a gross disparity to the quality of the linked units that comprise a system. Whether its a fixture for a new house, shoes to compliment an outfit, or options on a computer, most people will naturally arrange or coordinate the pieces to be at the same level of quality and expectation. When something is out of place, it draws negative attention and usually indicates that the decision maker is either ill-informed, or eccentric.

I still think, if you're going to do anything (especially modifying a late model upscale vehicle), do it right, or don't do it at all. Just don't do a lousy job. Its like waxing only the left half of the car, so you can save some wax, or changing the filter but not the oil, buying used car batteries and tires, etc . . . . Everyone has their own priorities, but some things simply don't make sense.

My intention is not to encourage people to upgrade to the best speakers available. I'm concerned that there seems to be a fixation on a very particular brand and model (and consequently engineering design) which promotes it as being the one and only answer to everyone's search to replace the Bose speakers. This is what I do not understand. There are so many other options at varying price levels, but very few discussions about them arise because people assume and take for granted that the frequency of recommendation in and of itself makes for a well-qualified recommendation. There are at least 12 major componenets to the Bose system, and replacement costs for these is more than $1800. It is reasonable to consider the bigger picture. When someone says they are installing a pair of $59 coaxials into an older, economical but poorly maintained vehicle, I say, "cool." When I find that they are installing it a new luxury vehicle with a decidely expensive optional sound system, I can't help but to silently think to myself, "What the heck are you thinking?!" This is not systemic quality matching, it is a sub-standard replacement, quantitatively and qualitatively (quantitative in comparison to the OEM replacement cost of the speaker removed, and qualitatively to the sound quality standard of most other luxury vehicles in aggregate - as no other luxury vehicle line uses anything less than component speakers). Is this what we refer to as an "incremental upgrade?" To move up from a 4 to a 6, when all other suvs in this price category are a 8 or 9? (Sorry guys, please don't get mad at my frankness, excuse the testiness) I call it substandard, cheap, and low quality. If you want to call it an upgrade, it should equal or exceed the base standard, not cut below it by several factors.

MDXtrous: I understand your point, and spending money on speaker upgrades is not for everyone. I'm not interested in being critical towards anyone, and for people who took this route there is no harm done; you're fine, happier than before. I just want to help make sure future candidates understand their options and some factors to consider. If anyone thinks I am misguided, they can seek for themselves the opinions of those more experienced than myself in any of the car audio usenets available. "I have a new $38K vehicle and I paid roughly half of a $2,600 package for an optional Bose system. I want to replace the factory speakers with Infinity 652 coaxials which I found on the net for $59, shipping free. What do you think?" (and remember, many of these guys are on a tight budget too) Shock therapy is healthy, it will certainly stimulate many responses. Hold on tight.

{Often many newer cars have acceptable coaxial speakers in acceptable mounting locations.} This is Blaupunkt talking, not specifically about luxury vehicles, and no examples. Someone needs to produce the name of a $30K+ sedan or suv with coaxials.
<< In fact, I have coaxial speakers in the doors of my 1997 Toyota RAV4: JL Audio XR 650-CX 6 1/2-inchers ($300 per pair).>> Yep, some coaxials are nearly as good as component sets, and also cost as much, but you still can't change the location of the tweeters which the article says is the most important issue. Renov8r: very polite rebuttal, good points about installation labor costs I never considered that as I did all my own work, thnx!

Okay, I concede. Infinity coaxials have their place. Just look around and think through the options first. Talk to a number of shops.

You know? What's the point? Who was it they burned at the stake for refusing to recant that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around? Actually, its good to be in a place where we can share ideas freely. But, I think people will appreciate if I just give it a rest. Sorry if I disturbed you, or you think I am disturbed. Thanks for listening. I also apologize for all the sore toes I must have stepped on. I know a lot of you have the Infinitys. Thanks for refraining from toasting me (I mean with a flame thrower, not with champaign).

MDXtrous: your video setup is cool? Any fights yet between using the Navi and the DVD? Does the navi voice still work in DVD mode?

PS No, you don't go high-end on everything. Only the things you actually put on your MDX. Otherwise, save money and don't buy it! I'm not broke from the speakers, its all that other stuff I don't use: painted lower trim/flares/, boards, tranny/strg coolers?

Just call me Bruce.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,713 Posts
TheyCallMeBruce said:
MDXtrous: your video setup is cool? Any fights yet between using the Navi and the DVD? Does the navi voice still work in DVD mode?
TheyCallMeBruce,

It's nice to have knowledgeable people give their input on this forum. It's people like you that drive innovation and make people expect more. Not everyone may agree on this issue, but just taking time to put together a long post, shows people want to help out. This is what's nice about this board.

As to your questions, there is no fight between Navi and DVD. There is a switch that allows me to switch between the two. The navi voice still works in DVD mode (although, once I chose to turn the volume of the voice off just so it wouldn't disturb, but could still read the map and see where I was going) mainly because I did not change the head unit. I'm told that's what controls the Navi sound. The only "conversion" was to the input into the Navi screen.

I'm taking it back this or next week to swap out the RF modulator, and the installer is going to use the CD-changer plug to trick the factory radio that there is an external cd-changer, but it will actually be the input for my video sound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
MDXtrous said:


As to your questions, there is no fight between Navi and DVD. There is a switch that
Oops, I meant fighting between you and the Mrs. Such as when the she's crying during the most touching scene in the movie and you need to figure out which interchange path to take in a new area.

Thanks for all the info on the DVD system, will try not to hijack the topic of this thread anymore.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top