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And, to reinforce my point, check THIS out from the BBC, Moscow Bureau. I rest my case.....

Ïîíåäåëüíèê, 7 ÿíâàðÿ 2002 ã., 14:07 GMT 17:07 MCK

Ôîòîãàëåðåÿ: Àâòîñàëîí â Äåòðîéòå

Îäíà èç îñíîâíûõ òåì àâòîøîó - ãèáðèäíûå àâòîìîáèëè, ñî÷åòàíèå óíèâåðñàëà è âíåäîðîæíèêà. Îäèí èç ïðåäñòàâèòåëåé òàêîãî íàïðàâëåíèÿ - "Êðàéñëåð-Ïàñèôèê".

Åùå îäèí ãèáðèä, "êîíöåïò-êàð" îò "Ñààáà".

"Õîíäà-Ïèëîò" áîëüøå òÿãîòååò ê äæèïó. Ýòà ìàøèíà ïîÿâèòñÿ â ïðîèçâîäñòâå â 2003 ãîäó.

"Ëåêñóñ-GX470" ïðåäñòàâèëè ñîïåðíèêè èç "Òîéîòû".
:D
 

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I saw it at the Detroit auto show yesterday. Its like a cross between the Land Cruiser and the M class. Not bad looking, actually. The only thing bad about it is the engine, supposedly borrowed from the LX470 rated at only 218 hp!(preliminary estimate, according to the display at the show). The 470 is actually rated at 230. Anything less than 240 in a vehicle that size is a crime. Com'n, the Altima is 240 hp. And they claim they're gonna move 8 people in it! Its gonna be a dog.
 

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rlm32 said:
I saw it at the Detroit auto show yesterday. Its like a cross between the Land Cruiser and the M class. Not bad looking, actually. The only thing bad about it is the engine, supposedly borrowed from the LX470 rated at only 218 hp!(preliminary estimate, according to the display at the show). The 470 is actually rated at 230. Anything less than 240 in a vehicle that size is a crime. Com'n, the Altima is 240 hp. And they claim they're gonna move 8 people in it! Its gonna be a dog.
I'll have to disagree with you on this issue. Horsepower is too often the only thing considered when looking at an engine's power. Torque plays an equally important factor in determining a vehicle's power and ability. More horsepower is better when you want high speed. 230 is a bit weak for an SUV such as the LX or GX, but it is certainly sufficient for an SUV. High speed isn't what an SUV is for. Torque, on the other hand, is where this, and many other larger engines - mainly V8's - are at an advantage. The 4.7 liter engine has 320lb-ft of torque. More than adequate for hauling anything, especailly 8 people.

Another example is the 4.3 liter engine used in the previous generation Blazer, Envoy, Bravada, Jimmy, etc... It had only 190 hp, but 250lb-ft of torque. It felt a weak a highway speeds, but could haul a load with ease.

So, yes, more horsepower may be desireable, but not necessarily so for this SUV. Remember, high speeds aren't an SUVs best friend;) More torque and less horsepower is a tradeoff in engine design. In this cas I think Toyota/Lexus knows their purpose for this SUV.

-Nick
 

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Aerodynamics too. The lower the drag, the better. You can have 500hp but if your drag is high, it won't matter......

I find some companies really BRAGGING on hp and hp is not the whole story. Where is your peak power? High rpm, low rpm. What gear will you be in?

Anyway to each his own.
 

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Those 300 plus pounds of torque are not enough to push the LX 470, which weighs over 5000 pounds. That shows in its mediocre acceleration of 10.1 seconds 0-60 mph, which is one of the slowest in the SUV segment. In fact, when you look at Motor Trend's December 2000 SUV comparo issue (which the MDX was SUV of the year), of all 13 SUV's tested, only 3 SUVs are slower, Mitsubishi Montero (10.3), Toyota RAV4 (10.4) and Hyundai Santa Fe(11.1). Anything over 10 is slow by modern SUV standards, where the average acceleration for SUV's is 8-9 sec 0-60 mph. Its gonna be a pretty slugish SUV unless the weight is kept down, which is probably not in the Lexus engineers priorities.
 

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While MotorTrend may be okay for looking at while your in the bathroom, I wouldn't take too much stock in what they say. Offer them a little bribe and you've got what you want! :rolleyes:

320lb-ft is a great deal of power, and for a 5401lb (curb weight) SUV, a 10 second 0-60 time is something I would consider on target. Anything lower wouldn't be high on my list of concerns for a 7-passenger SUV that hauls up to 6500lbs. Maybe an uneventful, 10 sec 0-60 is welcome in such a large SUV;) As always 0-60 speeds are left to cars - or vechiles with a significantly lower center of gravity.

-Nick
 

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Funny how automobile industry works. Once someone comes out with a brilliant creation...others have to follow suit.

1) Lexus was the first one to come out with the idea that an SUV doesnt have to be TRUCK like..therefore taking a Camry frame and making it the RX300 which displays..then agility, comfort and SUV like features for light duty off road....NOT BAD. One majoy glaw it has is that it lacks..room and some small minor feature sets.

2) Acura seeing the slump of rebadged Izuzu SUV sales...they follow suit to what Lexus did. Hey if you cant beat them..join them.. So they went and taken a Honda Odyssey frame and make an ALL NEW SUV that will be roomier, comfortable, performance oriented and attractive vehicle to get the large piece of SUV pie. Excellent job!

3) Now that Lexus and Mercedes is seeing attrition because of the Acura MDX...Mercedes revamped the ML...Nice try but still..a little short...the ML is still a FUGLY vehicle. Lexus on the other hand...plagiarized the ML a bit...and build a brand new SUV with bigger engine bigger interior in hopes of capturing back the customer base that Lexus RX300 has enjoyed for years...Only time will tell...BUT KNOWING HONDA...
The "sleeping RED Dragon" that is what Honda is referred to in Motocycle world..will get awaken AGAIN..There is no telling what Acura/Honda will do to its MDX...Supercharged engine? V-10 from the Famous F-1 Honda engines that win so many races? Ruggeddized version of MDX? Who knows...

All I know is that...its about a race between each manufacturers in hopes of capturing each of our hearts who are into cars. That is why we have car shows, expos, car magazines, car T.V. like SPEEDVISION...God Bless America...Capitalism at its best...

Remember...a guy can have a beat up piece of sh*t and call it his baby because the beat up car to him touches his heart touches his senses..the same compelling reason(s) why each of us drive an MDX, an RX300. an ML or soon a Pilot or soon a GX470. Buy what makes you FEEL GOOD and not WHAT the mass say.
 

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Fireblade6 said:
1) Lexus was the first one to come out with the idea that an SUV doesnt have to be TRUCK like..therefore taking a Camry frame and making it the RX300 which displays..then agility, comfort and SUV like features for light duty off road....NOT BAD. One majoy glaw it has is that it lacks..room and some small minor feature sets.
Not to stray from the topic but I guess it depends how you define an SUV. I don't think Lexus was the first to adopt an AWD vehicle on a car platform (e.g. by this time, the RAV4 and CRV were already out. In fact, the RAV4 won car of the year in '96 or '97. Maybe you don't count the others since they are smaller but they used, I believe, a Corolla and Civic platform, respectively. OK, maybe Lexus does get credit since it's a division of Toyota and first brought a touch of luxury to the crossover category.
 

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LexRX said:

. Maybe an uneventful, 10 sec 0-60 is welcome in such a large SUV;)

-Nick
Sure, remember that when you're merging into the highway from an on ramp with traffic coming at 70 mph while hauling 7 people. BTW, I think a very low percentage of Lexus owners are towing stuff with their SUV's.
 

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rlm32 said:


Sure, remember that when you're merging into the highway from an on ramp with traffic coming at 70 mph while hauling 7 people. BTW, I think a very low percentage of Lexus owners are towing stuff with their SUV's.
It'd be interesting to see how the MDX handles under such conditions, full of people and all of their cargo. I think this same senario could go for the MDX. While it is a potent V6, it will not seem nearly as robust when weighed down.

There isn't an onramp in the U.S. that isn't PLENTY long enough for the LX, and even slower vehicles, to get safely up to speed. First remember that on an onramp you aren't going from 0mph to highway speeds, maybe 35mph or so. If 0-60 is 10 seconds, I'm sure the 35-70 time will give you plenty of time to get that big bastard up to speed, even with a full load.

Now, try it with an '89 Chevrolet Conversion van with 7-people, all their luggage in the back and on top. Do that once a year for several years, two days at a time. Never once having problems getting up to speed. Mind you, with kids in the backgroud fighting etc. The point? The driver is at least 70% of this equation.

-Nick;)
 

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LexRX said:


It'd be interesting to see how the MDX handles under such conditions, full of people and all of their cargo.

-Nick;)
All being equal, the short answer is 2 seconds faster. And when driving at highway speed, 2 seconds is an eternity, . And were not talking high speeds here, 0-60 mph is everyday speeds for most people, even with SUV's.
 

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rlm32 said:

All being equal, the short answer is 2 seconds faster. And when driving at highway speed, 2 seconds is an eternity, . And were not talking high speeds here, 0-60 mph is everyday speeds for most people, even with SUV's.
You're telling me that you actually know the time for the MDX vs the LX470 when loaded with 7-people and cargo accelerating on an onramp or from 0-60 or 35-70, ect. I think you're confusing that with raw 0-60 times. Unless you do actually have data on this, then I am wrong.

-Nick
 

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This is my last take on this topic. I don't have to be a mathematician or engineer to know that its gonna be AT LEAST 2 seconds slower than my MDX. BTW, you don't have to look at Motor Trend to realize the lack of power of the LX470. Taken from the www.edmunds.com web site ( I know, they take bribes when they write their reviews, right?): "Power comes from a 4.7-liter V8 that creates 230 horsepower and 320 pound-feet of torque. This V8 is one of the smoothest engines we've ever experienced. Still, we'd like Lexus to add a few horsepower to propel the 5,401-pound truck--".
 

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rlm32 said:
This is my last take on this topic. I don't have to be a mathematician or engineer to know that its gonna be AT LEAST 2 seconds slower than my MDX. BTW, you don't have to look at Motor Trend to realize the lack of power of the LX470. Taken from the www.edmunds.com web site ( I know, they take bribes when they write their reviews, right?): "Power comes from a 4.7-liter V8 that creates 230 horsepower and 320 pound-feet of torque. This V8 is one of the smoothest engines we've ever experienced. Still, we'd like Lexus to add a few horsepower to propel the 5,401-pound truck--".
Last take on the topic? I feel the same, we can agree to disagree, somewhat. I saw somewhat because I really don't disagree with you on the power issue in the sense of HP. I too think that the LX could benefit from more than 230 hp. I just wanted to defend the statement about the LX being inadequate/sluggish in power emphasizing it's hefty torque rating.

Just a nice lively debate on a subject I'm sure we both love to talk about;) Hopefully I didn't offend you or anyone. Either way, they are all a great bunch of SUV's.

-Nick
 

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Hey Nick. No offense taken. I agree with you, its pretty fun to have healthy discussions about SUVs and cars (my wife won't participate in such discussions, except when were planning to buy a new one for her :) ),and a lot of it is very subjective on the actual driver.The goal here is to enjoy what we are driving (or planning to drive). And don't get me wrong , the LX470 is a dam nice SUV and the new one is gonna be nice, I just think that the engine power issue in the new Lexus SUV its gonna take away a few potential customers in that price range. ;)
 

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LexRX said:
Well, rlm32, I think you and I have beat this thread to death :..
-Nick
Actually the discussion has been fairly healthy (compared to some). :) Whatever information Lexus you speak for, ust keep in mind the Lexus470 is on a much higher price segment. It ought to be better in some.. but it will be a shame if it isn't. Most buyers in the MDX market segment are looking for a best overall combination luxary SUV at the optimum price. And for two years the MDX still gives good punches while others stuggle to catch up. Let's us know if Lexus catch up on the next round... maybe I will buy one.

:p
 

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The day I see ANY SUV with 7 passengers is the day I buy one;)

Remember folks, a lot of people DO NOT need the "bigger is better" theory and 7 passenger seating. The RX still sells relatively well becuase it manages unpeered luxury, reliability and is one of the smaller SUVs, some people don't want a big truck.

The RX does have a large turning radius but it has never posed a problem for me when I drive one.:cool:
 
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