[wmquan]

Domination by Toyota/Lexus, with a strong showing by GM.

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/pressrelease.asp?ID=2002040

Honda/Acura places four vehicles in the top three of various segments; none of them win their segment:: CR-V, Accord, TL, and S2000.

 

[wmquan]

How'd the MDX Do?

Here are the JD Power Initial Quality Survey results for the 2001 and 2002 MDX's.

 

[vicpai]

I find it very odd that......

........that the 2002 MDX fared worse in "Mechanical quality" as compared with the 2001 model.......but then again I have never placed much weight in J.D. Power's results.......prefer Consumer Report's more "long-term" results which IMHO are much better indicators of a vehicle's overall reliability/quality/durability

 

[wmquan]

Re: I find it very odd that......

........that the 2002 MDX fared worse in "Mechanical quality" as compared with the 2001 model.......but then again I have never placed much weight in J.D. Power's results.......prefer Consumer Report's more "long-term" results which IMHO are much better indicators of a vehicle's overall reliability/quality/durability

Yup, I always take Consumer Reports' rating more seriously as well. The JD Power survey can have some holes, but it's not a bad initial barometer as long as you don't put all your eggs in it. People need to keep in mind that the Initial Quality Survey is based on the first few months of a vehicle, and won't show any issues that pop up afterwards. JD Power has somewhat less-publicized "mid-term" and "long-term" surveys that reflect 1-3 years and longer. Of course, the MDX being relatively new, there are no other JD Power surveys available for it.

One possible explanation for the improvement in "body and interior quality" could be the fixing of the thud and weeping mirrors. Don't know what might be affecting mechanical quality, unless transmission issues are beginning to set in.

BTW, the 2002 4Runner was 3/4/4. The 2002 Highlander had an awesome 5/5/4 score (though curiously the 2001 had 4/4/5!).

 

[Pauls MDX]

Japan vs USA

Like I always said the Japan made vehicles always have a higher quality control than the American. If the MDX was assembled in Japan it would of been on the J.D. powers results.

 

[vicpai]

Re: Japan vs USA

Like I always said the Japan made vehicles always have a higher quality control than the American. If the MDX was assembled in Japan it would of been on the J.D. powers results.

I have always believed this as well.....and I still think, generally speaking, vehicles ACTUALLY BUILT IN JAPAN are better put together with tighter quality control........In fact, one Toyota employee, supposedly "unofficially" admitted that they have far fewer complaints on Japanese-built Camrys than they have on U.S. built ones. (Actually until I heard of this I didn't realize that some of the Camrys sold in the U.S. actually come from Japan!!! - I was under the impression they were all built in the Georgetown, Kentucky plant).........Now, getting back to the Japanese built vehicles vs. U.S. built vehicles, I was very unpleasantly surprised (and intrigued) with the low (by Toyota standards) reliabilty rating of the the "supposedly higher quality" Japanese-built Toyota RAV4........Makes me wonder if the Japanese are getting lazier with a more callous attidude towards their jobs?? (One of the reasons the Japanese build such high quality products has been because everyone from Management down to the assembly-line worker takes a lot of pride in whatever they do, and do it extremely well........but I wonder if that ethic is changing due to the influences of modern society??)

 

[MDXLuvr]

Re: I find it very odd that......

........that the 2002 MDX fared worse in "Mechanical quality" as compared with the 2001 model.......but then again I have never placed much weight in J.D. Power's results.......prefer Consumer Report's more "long-term" results which IMHO are much better indicators of a vehicle's overall reliability/quality/durability

I agree, how can a 2nd year model of the be less reliable than the 1st year run.

like u guys mentioned, I take J.D. power with a grain of salt. I prefer C.R. even though they are not perfect either.

 

[MDXLuvr]

Re: Japan vs USA

Like I always said the Japan made vehicles always have a higher quality control than the American. If the MDX was assembled in Japan it would of been on the J.D. powers results.

you are probably right, but what about the accord built in ohio? its quality has always been top notch, and i believe most of the accords sold in u.s. since mid 80's have been built in ohio.

 

[vip9]

Tired of being a statistical figure....

When I read that quality-review article yesterday, I had mixed feelings. Although not mentioned by name, MDX was "2nd best" by virtue of being made by Honda/Acura.

I must admit, I probably got spoiled while owning Subaru Legacy from 1996 thru 2000. Maybe it was just a "lucky" car, maybe all Subarus of that generation were really good, I don't know. Except for basic regular maintenance twice a year, I never went to visit a dealer.

While reading similar reviews during those times, I was thinking to myself, "If Subaru is SO good, yet they say Toyota and Honda are better, maybe I will NEVER have to visit a dealer if I buy one of their cars?"

Well, as many of you know from personal experience as well as from reading my previous posts, this predicament did not come true.

There are TSBs out addressing virtually every component of the MDX. That means that my car, having gone through THUD, seat rails, bad alignment of interior components, broken rear wiper tranny/motor, hard starts, leaky mirrors, etc. is not just unlucky. They are all like that.... Plus this survey says that '02 models are actually WORSE in their mechanical components....

Foreseeing some of your possible replies to my comments, I want to say that I know, that BMW's, MB's and EVEN some Lexus have as many if not even more, and maybe even more severe problems than MDX has.

Still, overall I am UPSET and honestly would not RECOMMEND MDX as sincerely and wholeheartedly as I did when people used to ask me about Subaru.

I am sad to admit that I settled for the best of the worst.... (unfortunately, I do not know of anything better)

 

[JTM]

Re: Japan vs USA

Like I always said the Japan made vehicles always have a higher quality control than the American. If the MDX was assembled in Japan it would of been on the J.D. powers results.

I believe this as well. My '93 Maxima never break down, except those schedule maintenance. But I also believe Honda makes good car. That is why I got my 'X.:7:

 

[DaleB]

In my perspective, JD Power continues to show Japanese manufacturing to be superior in quality overall, but if one slips a bit they are quick to show that also, which is fair.

But with American vehciles, they seem to praise them for being among the "most improved", and not the real truth which is they are always trying to catch up. (Well, I don't know, maybe not trying that hard)

 

[wmquan]

Re: I find it very odd that......

........that the 2002 MDX fared worse in "Mechanical quality" as compared with the 2001 model.......

Sorry, I brain-locked on this one when I typed my original response to you (it was late).

The reason a vehicle can "dip" in a category or two in JD Power is because the JD Power scores are relative to all other vehicles in the class. So if a vehicle does not show quality improvement in a particular category, it can actually get a lower score the next year, since the overall trend in vehicles is that they become more and more reliable.

That doesn't excuse the vehicles that have a dip -- they not only have to improve their quality, they need to improve their quality at a pace faster than the average if they need to do catch up. I think it's quite fair.

Consumer Reports's category scores are absolute, while their overall ratings are relative. That's why they have individual category scores that can be almost all 'well above average,' but the overall vehicle score is just 'average'.

 

[wmquan]

JD Power 2002 Initial Quality Survey - Top Brands

Acura tied for #2 on the list of brands with the highest initial (90 days) quality. Honda placed #6 overall.

To see the full list, please see:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/05/31/car-quality-chart-rankings.htm

 

[wmquan]

Re: Japan vs USA

Like I always said the Japan made vehicles always have a higher quality control than the American. If the MDX was assembled in Japan it would of been on the J.D. powers results.

Look how phonomenally well one Toyota-Japan plant does.

From the JD Power & Associates 2002 Initial Quality Survey.

 

[wmquan]

Other Acura Models in JD Power 2002 Initial Quality Survey

Here's how the other Acuras fared, as Acura overall tied for #2 in the JD Power brands with the highest initial quality (90 days).

Please note that the score is within each vehicle's segment (the score is not absolute, but relative; if there are a lot of well-built cars in the segment, it's tougher to get a high score).

 

[wmquan]

Top Vehicles Per Segment

The top three vehicles in each segment, with the highest initial quality scores.

From JD Power's 2002 Initial Quality Survey. Full story at:

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/pressrelease.asp?ID=2002040

 

[DaleB]

Hmm don't see Nissan on the first list, problems per 100 vehicles.

 

[wmquan]

Hmm don't see Nissan on the first list, problems per 100 vehicles.

Dale, to see the full list, please click on the link above the picture of the chart (the picture wasn't big enough for the full list). Here's the full list link again:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/05/31/car-quality-chart-rankings.htm

I was stunned to find Nissan so far down on the list (also Subaru). Here's where the JD Power 90-day influence may come in, as CR usually has Nissan and Subaru way up there with their longer term surveys.

Why did Nissan do so poorly? If you go to:

http://www.jdpower.com/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp

And look up 2002 Nissans, the Altima (new design), Frontier, and Quest are all slightly below the midpoint, and the Xterra below the midpoint. The Sentra is significantly below the midpoint (was that new for 2002?).

Even the Maxima is just average, which surprises me. The Pathfinder does well.

 

[MDXLuvr]

Did u see Jaguar, and Saab. Jag was #2 on J.D.P. list last year and Saab was #5. Jaguar has plummeted to #19.

This proves(once again) that for Long Term Reliability Data- go with C.R. J.D.P's survey is only for initial quality, which is a small variable in determining long term reliability. I seriously doubt any of us consider Jaguar(Ford) quality to be in the same league as Honda/Toyota/Subaru quality!

 

[wmquan]

Did u see Jaguar, and Saab. Jag was #2 on J.D.P. list last year and Saab was #5. Jaguar has plummeted to #19.

This proves(once again) that for Long Term Reliability Data- go with C.R. J.D.P's survey is only for initial quality, which is a small variable in determining long term reliability. I seriously doubt any of us consider Jaguar(Ford) quality to be in the same league as Honda/Toyota/Subaru quality!

JD Power's Initial Quality Survey (IQS) only covers the first 90 days of ownership. They definitely don't state it covers long-term reliability. Thus, the IQS is highly vulnerable to the variabilities of the first model year, phasing out of older and perhaps more reliable vehicles, and some degree of variability.

JD Power actually does have longer-term quality studies, but the media doesn't focus on those! There is a mid-term report for 1-3 year ownership, and a longer-term ownership survey. But you don't hear about those too much!