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Is A EV In Your Future?

5K views 63 replies 17 participants last post by  mvl 
#1 ·
I leased a 2022 Acura MDx Advance last August 2021. I truly really like the car (I try not to use the term LOVE , leaving that for Family and friends). I leased it with a possible intent to buy it at a buyout price of about $36K in August 2024 ( 3 year lease via Acura Financial). My wife has a 2016 Honda CRV with about 40K miles on the clock. My lease included 10K miles per year - I won't be close to that. With the Handwriting on the Wall - whether you like it or not, EVs are Coming. My thought process of the possible Buyout was that who knows where the market for a low MPG vehicle like the MDX will be in 2024 and beyond. The tremendous increase (100%) in gasoline is adding "fuel to the Fire" of that decision.

As much as i like the MDX for many reasons (Comfort, ride and handling, Looks, etc.), at 70 YO, i don't actually need a 3 row SUV (i often wonder what the stat is for the number of 3 row SUV owners that use that 3rd Row to haul people). We use the CRV to bring grandkids for necessary neraby activities.

So, i pose this questtion: Is an EV in Your Future? For various good and bad reasons, I for one hestitate to Rush In (the song says it best: Only Fools Rush In). I continue to do my Homework on them. But i do HATE that "they" are ramming it down our Collective Throats. The benefits are many: No gas $$$; limited repairs (wheels / Tires/ brakes); Powerful HP and Torque; all new fancy Gadgety interior Toys; and no poluting the environment. The bad things: limited power Charging stations; Battery breakdown expenses; local power outages from storms that will prevent your house charging; and the recent warnings I 've read about form Electro - Magnetic Engineers about the amount of EM waves that are emitted ( akin to riding on a Huge Microwave oven everytime you drive it. And the warning to NEVER sit in the car while it is plugged in and Charging !!). And compound that "They" don't dislose how much Fossil Fuel needs to be expended to produce the extra Electricity to power these EVs. Rolling Brownouts were recently warned that will be experienced this year!! IMHO, I would have preffered a greater gravitation to high grade Hybrids ( Hyundai, Honda [new CRV] , and a number of others ). i drove a 2021 CRV Hybrid several months ago as we were teasing about upgrading our 2016 CRV. i was impressed with the increased HP, Torque, increased response, and of course the increased MPGs top 37 Highway / 28-29 City. It would have been a No Brainer to go for that CRV for a $1500 increment in price. We elected to keep our CRV , put new tires on and go with that for now. If Acura still had a Sport Hybrid for the 2022 MDX - I would have done that in a NanoSecond. They dropped in 2020 model year. That MDx had more HP, More Torque and Better MPGs.

That's my Two Cents.......oh wait, now that's worth one Cent.
 
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#2 ·
Having one EV city car will probably be in my future living in the southwest in about 5-7 years. Distances between cities/superchargers are 2-5 hours away and I really can't go 100% EV as my main travel car with coast-to-coast trips. I would like to have a combination of EV+solar+battery power storage solution for home charging. Solar+battery power storage are just too expensive right now and it would take too many years to break even. Really looking at Ford Lightning EV and solar panels because of the secondary use of the truck as a whole house battery back-up (my house is electric except for gas tankless water heater and radiant floor heat). I can see EVs and battery power storage solutions becoming increasingly affordable and a viable option +15 years from now.

I have a 18 RLX hybrid and 19 MDX hybrid right now. That is the 99.9% solution for me with my driving environment (short city runs, 2-12 hours from everywhere else, high altitudes of 5000-8,000 feet w/ sea level min/11,000 feet max, hwy speeds of 70-85 mph, extreme cold below zero in winter, extreme heat +110 F in summer). The amount of gas I use for my 321hp 19 MDX is less when I had my 205hp 06 TSX with 2.4L+5AT.

I can understand the reason why car manufacturers don't like hybrids because you get all the issues with I.C.E. and EVs rolled into one vehicle. I can display the hybrid Power Distribution Monitor on the navi screen of my MDX/RLX and the system is working like crazy balancing out the extremely smooth power delivery/vectoring/regen between 4 motors and transmission. That is some serious engineering/software brain power to integrate all that together so smoothly. Acura is probably thinking why invest in hybrid powertrains when the end results will be BEV in 10 years or less.
 
#55 ·
I found this article provided insight into the practical aspects of owning an electric vehicle right now if you're not just driving it locally:

The EV 1000: 11 EVs Face Off in a Long-Distance Race (Car and Driver)
Everyone should read this article. The range at 60-70 mph is startlingly low and the driver's weren't using A/C and running as many accessories as they could off their own independent battery power. Then when they got to charges, many didn't work or charged at much slower rates. Some of them took ubers to go get food while the cars charged. So IMO, the safe range based on this article for real world highway driving, if you want to enjoy the luxuries of your vehicle, is likely below 200 miles. So every 200 miles you're adding a minimum of 45 minutes to your trip.

I can add my 2c who once owned 2 MDX including 2019 Sports hybrid.
2017 Prius Prime plug-in with 25-35 miles range.
Finally Mustang Mach-e.
Mustang is BEV. 210 miles range in summer and with fast charge 20% to 80% in 40 minutes more than covers our needs.
if you don’t need 3 rows it’s an excellent small SUV.
Its also not about money only, though with high gas prices it’s great not to visit gas station .
Fun of driving Mustang and electronics are far better than what I had in 19 MDX.
If electric SUV had 400-500 miles range there would be very little need for ICE.
Not having an engine has big maintenance benefit, no oil change or emissions etc.
Within 5 years balance will flip with more charging stations being installed, particularly major cities.
It's not just a matter of charging stations. It's the fact that it still takes 30 minutes to 2 hours to charge the car at a supercharger. And right now there is no SUV or Truck that will really even get 300 miles with normal use. Under real world conditions, most electric vehicles are looking at less than 200 miles. Which is fine for a normal commuter car you charge at your home but terrible if you want to even venture a few hours away.

I went on a couple 4 hours trips this week. An electric car would have added a ton of time to my trips. That is what is turning me away from the new Acura EV and towards a new MDX.

Can we address the myth that hybrids and EVs are better for the environment? How much fossil fuel is burned to mine the material to make the batteries? What percentage of EVs are charged by fossil fuel electric plants? What is the environmental impact of battery/car disposal when recycling isn’t an option? What would he true cost of purchase and charging were it not for heavy tax payer funded subsidies? If not for the artificial inflation of gasoline prices how much less enthusiastic would hybrid and EV buyers be? I am in no way saying we shouldn’t be working on EV solutions, but at the moment and who knows how far into the future we are nowhere near a real economical solution and we will need a per mile charge or tax on electric to replace the gasoline tax that currently funds infrastructure creation and repair. Even at $6 gas if the true cost of hybrids and EVs were delivered to the users the sales rate would be far less than what it is.
California already tacks on a fee for EVs. $100 per year with their registration (which btw, is more than I pay for both my cars where I live). They're saying that fee is going to increase. And CA is testing a mileage tax (which they claim would replace the gas tax but call me skeptical that it wont be tacked on). In the car and driver article linked above, they didn't save much money. The supercharges cost less than gas...maybe as much as 50%. So gas driver is paying $200 and EV is paying $100 for a supercharger and spending 30 -120 minutes at a charger.

EVs are great for local air quality and noise pollution (since they're much quieter). They're useful as commuter vehicles when they can be charged at home with cheaper electricity. After that they lose much of their advantages.

I would offer the maintenance costs of EVs are also underestimated since nobody looks at cars owned for 15+ years. Can you imagine what the cost of repairs in an EV that's 20 years old?

But I think the answer is that all of us will eventually be forced to buy an EV whether we want to or not.
 
#4 ·
Is A EV In Your Future?
Absolutely! When it makes sense financially and logistically. I think the earliest we'll come close to that would be in about 5-6 years. For now it only makes sense as a second vehicle just for errands and groceries, for example. Not really viable in Canada for long trips. And no, I'm not planning my trip around charging stations. If I wanted to be limited with specific routes, I'd use public transportation.
 
#5 ·
I would tend to agree with everybody's posted Timeline.....5-7 years or so. Yes, EVs could make a lot of sense for the shorter daily commutes for work (I'm retired Now since May 2021) and for retired folks just doing short daily commutes to get around. Economically, well that takes some thinking. For instance, we own a 2016 CRV Touring, paid Off, with just short of 40K Miles. Works fine, no problems and gets about 21-22 MPGs overall, driving 85% City (Suburban) / 15% Highway. That's not too bad. i won't trade in that car for say about $24-25K (?), and buy a new EV (est of $40-50K for a similar SUV equivalency) , lay out another $25K (plus Taxes of $1800) or take a new loan at 4% interest for 5 years. For the amount of gasoline we consume, even at $6 a gallon (Incredible, and avoidable, but that's another Story onto itself), it would take many Years to make that up. And then the EV will need new batteries, higher insurance rates, as a simple example in This case... assume 10 gallons a week for gas @$6 per gallon (regular), that equate to $2880 per year for gasoline. Roughly 10 years to make up for the outlay for the new EV now. And that's not adding in the rate of return on the $25 K in the Bank, so to speak. Actually, US Treasury Series I Bonds,currently paying 9.62% interest rate is very attractive !! That's not accounting for the WOW factor of a new EV and it's gadgetry / Toys.
 
#7 ·
Exception to that rule is the 17-20 MDX Sport Hybrid for $1500 higher MSRP than a similar 3.5L sh-awd. I paid less than the $1500 premium back in 2019 using USAA car buying services (around $5500 off sticker for MDX+accessories). I figure I will keep my hybrid for 150,000 miles and/or 10-12 years total and I will break even on gas in around the 5-6 year mark. I got the Sport Hybrid because of performance and handling with improved mpgs being a nice feature.
 
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#8 · (Edited)
Similar to the article linked above, a recent article in the Wall Street Journal, where one of their writers took a Kia EV from New Orleans to Chicago and back (up I-59 & 65, and back I-57 & 55). She found, as mentioned in the article above, speed greatly affects range, some fast chargers are not--taking 2-3 hrs vs 30 minutes, sometimes hard to find a charging stations, having to walk a long way or Uber to food while vehicle charges, etc. Result was that trip took a lot longer than expected when she mapped out her charging and overnight stops. Writer spent $175 for charging fees, vs an estimated $275 that would have been spent is gas. My bottom line is that the $100 savings is not worth the hassle factor and extra travel time.

Edited to add link to article: EV Trip
 
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#10 ·
In addition, which I think is being Overlooked by all reviews is the fact that More Fossil Fuels need to be used to produce the Extra Electricity. Brownouts and Blackouts are now being predicted for this Summer . The CNET analysis is was very spot on . Save The Planet ( no political inferences here), My Butt! You should take a look at Who is invested into EVs, Lithium Batteries, etc. Might Shock you !!
 
#11 ·
Areas like the southwest get +300 days of direct sunlight and the wind is blowing most days. I would like to see an affordable solution of every home and business with solar+battery back-up on the grid. We could have solar/wind farms with additional battery backup for peak times. Even if my neighbor down the street doesn't have clear skies, I could recharge their in-house battery backup with my extra solar power on the grid. It would be normal to have supercharger capabilities at every house, private/public parking, and business for BEV and plug in hybrid cars of the future.

I don't see that happening for +15 years from now and local power companies will lobby hard against it.
 
#12 ·
I leased a 2022 Acura MDx Advance last August 2021. I truly really like the car (I try not to use the term LOVE , leaving that for Family and friends). I leased it with a possible intent to buy it at a buyout price of about $36K in August 2024 ( 3 year lease via Acura Financial). My wife has a 2016 Honda CRV with about 40K miles on the clock. My lease included 10K miles per year - I won't be close to that. With the Handwriting on the Wall - whether you like it or not, EVs are Coming. My thought process of the possible Buyout was that who knows where the market for a low MPG vehicle like the MDX will be in 2024 and beyond. The tremendous increase (100%) in gasoline is adding "fuel to the Fire" of that decision.

As much as i like the MDX for many reasons (Comfort, ride and handling, Looks, etc.), at 70 YO, i don't actually need a 3 row SUV (i often wonder what the stat is for the number of 3 row SUV owners that use that 3rd Row to haul people). We use the CRV to bring grandkids for necessary neraby activities.

So, i pose this questtion: Is an EV in Your Future? For various good and bad reasons, I for one hestitate to Rush In (the song says it best: Only Fools Rush In). I continue to do my Homework on them. But i do HATE that "they" are ramming it down our Collective Throats. The benefits are many: No gas $$$; limited repairs (wheels / Tires/ brakes); Powerful HP and Torque; all new fancy Gadgety interior Toys; and no poluting the environment. The bad things: limited power Charging stations; Battery breakdown expenses; local power outages from storms that will prevent your house charging; and the recent warnings I 've read about form Electro - Magnetic Engineers about the amount of EM waves that are emitted ( akin to riding on a Huge Microwave oven everytime you drive it. And the warning to NEVER sit in the car while it is plugged in and Charging !!). And compound that "They" don't dislose how much Fossil Fuel needs to be expended to produce the extra Electricity to power these EVs. Rolling Brownouts were recently warned that will be experienced this year!! IMHO, I would have preffered a greater gravitation to high grade Hybrids ( Hyundai, Honda [new CRV] , and a number of others ). i drove a 2021 CRV Hybrid several months ago as we were teasing about upgrading our 2016 CRV. i was impressed with the increased HP, Torque, increased response, and of course the increased MPGs top 37 Highway / 28-29 City. It would have been a No Brainer to go for that CRV for a $1500 increment in price. We elected to keep our CRV , put new tires on and go with that for now. If Acura still had a Sport Hybrid for the 2022 MDX - I would have done that in a NanoSecond. They dropped in 2020 model year. That MDx had more HP, More Torque and Better MPGs.

That's my Two Cents.......oh wait, now that's worth one Cent.
We are marching toward alternative energy slower than the rest of the world, that is true, but we are starting to accelerate (because the number - the dollars in one's wallet - do not lie). LOL seriously though, holding all other variables constant (production of the car, rare earth availability etc), EVs pollute much much less than non EVs. Fossil fuels are on the way out . For me, sourcing Lithium is the issue. But wait, guess what was just discovered at the Salton Sea? The whole thing is sitting on top of a Lithium reserve. But also, I wish we could get fuel cell technology to be viable. Talk about cheap. As the owner of a 2020 Hybrid, I can tell you that it handles and rides so well that I'm not going to buy a new (non hybrid) MDX. Acura stopped making the MDX Hybrid. They have nary a hybrid or EV in the entire fleet. Guess my next vehicle will be an Audi or a Lucid (check out the Lucid Air ;) Honda on the other hand has quite a few EVs and Hybrids to chose from. My wife's Accord gets 45mpg with ME driving it, LOL and it dopes ok
Cheers
 
#16 ·
BrucelnPA, I couldn't agree more with you about Hybrid technology. I often posted here and at other Acura Forums, that if Acura had offered a 2022 Hybrid MDX Advance - it was a total No-Brainer. However, they do Not. Your 2020 Hybrid MDX will Appreciate in Value with $7 a gallon Gasoline, on the East Coast ; approaching $10 on the West Coast. Notwithstanding the adage that Fossil Fuel is on the way out ("we are going to save the Planet"), there are lots of "things" that require Fossil Fuels - Jet airplanes for one, Rockets to outter Space, Military equipment , Farm equipment, and on & on. The transgression to Non Fosil Fuels is just and noble, BUT will take much more time. And World Wide Participation (Good Luck with That!)
I test drove a 2021 CRV Hybrid last summer. i was impressed with the increased HP, torque and of course the incresed MPGs. it worked seemlessly with no lagging etc. But since our 2016 had only under 38K on the clock , and was Paid Off !!, we couldn't justify the additonal expense of $12-14 K that was rquired over the Trade. So, we put new Tires on the CRV and held on too the 2016.
 
#13 ·
VERY interesting points you bring up... But first, an interesting fact regarding your two cents being worth one cent: if they’re copper cents minted prior to 10/1982 (check the date of every individual cent you have) then your $.02 is worth more than $.055 based on the melt value of the copper alone. These “older” bits of seemingly useless change are comprised of 95% pure copper and at $4.40 per pound, copper vents are quite valuable - especially when it only requires 154 cents ($1.54) to yield $4.40 worth of copper.

Onto the three-row MDX…. FIRST, I agree with you on the Sport Hybrid- it was and still is the best powertrain ever to rest under the hood of an MDX, Type-S included. Regarding the MDX’s cargo capacity - it’s huge when the second row is folded down, it’s simply big when the third row is folded down and I find I need the added space an MDX affords when making Costco trips and the odd furniture purchase, not to mention needing the third row for passengers once per year even though my kids are grown. As it pertains to EV’s, it’s going to take more than a decade to get even half of the drivers out there to buy an EV - for a wide variety of reasons I won’t get into here. That said, the demand for Dino juice will continue for decades. As EV adoption increases, demand will necessarily decreases for gas, thus lowering its price for a long time to come, even if right now it seems like gas will never be cheap again. You should also know that EVs are dirtier to manufacture (for now) than their ICE counterparts, even if they’re cleaner during their operating life.

One point many overlook comparing smaller, cheaper cars to pricier, larger ones like your MDX/CRV comparison. Most people might not think about or realize that an MDX is about 1200 pounds heavier than a CRV so all else being equal, an MDX is MUCH safer in a crash than a CRV. That said, the CRV has a slightly shorter braking distance than an MDX but the MDX out handles the CRV and the MDX is also much quicker/responsive to throttle inputs. Not knowing what kind of accident scenario one might be in, the MDX is the better vehicle when it comes to safety, so if you can afford either car, think about the value of human life before making a purchase.

Now to answer your question, yes, an EV is in my future but I’d rather buy a 2025 MDX Hybrid first.
 
#18 ·
crankasaur, I like how you took my 2 cents comment very literally, applying it the actual Coppwr metal !! :):). My point which I know you got was the effects of Inflation on the Dollar. As a retiree on fixed income (the wife too), with 15-18% REAL inflation, we are going Backwards ina Hurry. Just what I needed after working and paying taxes since I was 14 YO - I'm 70 now - 56 Years of meaningful contributions to society. Sorry, for rambling and breaking from the Thread.
 
#14 ·
I leased a 2022 Acura MDx Advance last August 2021. I truly really like the car (I try not to use the term LOVE , leaving that for Family and friends). I leased it with a possible intent to buy it at a buyout price of about $36K in August 2024 ( 3 year lease via Acura Financial). My wife has a 2016 Honda CRV with about 40K miles on the clock. My lease included 10K miles per year - I won't be close to that. With the Handwriting on the Wall - whether you like it or not, EVs are Coming. My thought process of the possible Buyout was that who knows where the market for a low MPG vehicle like the MDX will be in 2024 and beyond. The tremendous increase (100%) in gasoline is adding "fuel to the Fire" of that decision.

As much as i like the MDX for many reasons (Comfort, ride and handling, Looks, etc.), at 70 YO, i don't actually need a 3 row SUV (i often wonder what the stat is for the number of 3 row SUV owners that use that 3rd Row to haul people). We use the CRV to bring grandkids for necessary neraby activities.

So, i pose this questtion: Is an EV in Your Future? For various good and bad reasons, I for one hestitate to Rush In (the song says it best: Only Fools Rush In). I continue to do my Homework on them. But i do HATE that "they" are ramming it down our Collective Throats. The benefits are many: No gas $$$; limited repairs (wheels / Tires/ brakes); Powerful HP and Torque; all new fancy Gadgety interior Toys; and no poluting the environment. The bad things: limited power Charging stations; Battery breakdown expenses; local power outages from storms that will prevent your house charging; and the recent warnings I 've read about form Electro - Magnetic Engineers about the amount of EM waves that are emitted ( akin to riding on a Huge Microwave oven everytime you drive it. And the warning to NEVER sit in the car while it is plugged in and Charging !!). And compound that "They" don't dislose how much Fossil Fuel needs to be expended to produce the extra Electricity to power these EVs. Rolling Brownouts were recently warned that will be experienced this year!! IMHO, I would have preffered a greater gravitation to high grade Hybrids ( Hyundai, Honda [new CRV] , and a number of others ). i drove a 2021 CRV Hybrid several months ago as we were teasing about upgrading our 2016 CRV. i was impressed with the increased HP, Torque, increased response, and of course the increased MPGs top 37 Highway / 28-29 City. It would have been a No Brainer to go for that CRV for a $1500 increment in price. We elected to keep our CRV , put new tires on and go with that for now. If Acura still had a Sport Hybrid for the 2022 MDX - I would have done that in a NanoSecond. They dropped in 2020 model year. That MDx had more HP, More Torque and Better MPGs.

That's my Two Cents.......oh wait, now that's worth one Cent.
The honda accord hybrid has very nice performance and gets close to 50 mph. Not bad really. If you live in a cold place like I do, Montana, figure up to 50% reduction in range in the unless you want to freeze your fanny off.
 
#15 ·
I feel 5-7 years is too aggressive for widespread EV use beyond a second commuter car. I think price and component/battery tech will stop being the limiting adoption factor by then, but powergrid will take over as the limit. I don't think public charging stations can be built faster than they have in the past 3 years (construction labor shortage, backhaul line capacity), and in the same 3 years charger wait times have slowed to unacceptable levels even as EVs have only gone from maybe 1% to 3% of the cars on the road. Thus I don't think we can build at an infrastructure pace to handle more than 2% growth of EV's a year, putting us at under 20% of EVs in 7 years.

I also think the "second commuter car" market is probably half EV's already, there isn't much more room in this market especially with the growth of telework and rideshare shrinking the total market size.
 
#17 ·
I'm for the most part in mvl's Court !! Yes on the local Carriage usage . I'm 70 yo, retired since May 2021 (forced on by numerous spinal issues which got the Best of Me), and getting the 2022 MDX Advance was a treat to acquire (traded in for my 2019 MDX on a early lease termination deal in August 2021). I truly LIKE the car (I usually reserve the term Love for people / Family), and although gas prices were already escalating (Can't get started on that !! ), we all know it was not going to go Down under this administration. LIKE he Looks and redesign, the handling, the ride, the ELS Stereo, and much more. In retrospect, my actions were a bit obessive in behavior. I leased the new MDX because I could not seeing laying out $65K (with taxes), for a vehicle which may be heading toward a vry fast depreciative state in the coming years. Did I really need a 3 Row SUV.... No not really. So, it is chaulked up as Impulsive behavior.

Your point about EV Charging Stations is worth real evaluation. I live in Westchester County NY (Suburban County to NYC). in the past year or so, my wife of 47 years and i would go to a local Town park for some Fresh Air. While tyere I noticed that there are 2 EV Charging Stations - Electric is GRATIS !!. After watching on some occassions EVs Plugged in from CT (I live not very far form the NY/CT border), I contacted the Town's Board Office, inquiring about Who paid for the EV Charging Stations installations? and why is Plugging In for FREE? I finally got a response .....months later. The Stations were installed under a State / Federal Gov't "program" (oh another program that WE THE PEOPLE pay for), and electric meters for the stations will be installed in the early Spring of 2022. Well, finally after more inquiries, it was discovered that Meters were installed as of June 1, 2022. Just saw them the other day going to the same park. The charges are pre- prscibed at $1.75 per Hour !! I'm not Thomas Edison, and don't know anything of the Kilowatts per hour needed to charge a typical EV, but in my Unscientific opinion, $1.75 per hour for the amount of power being disbursed sounds very Cheap. Why did CT drivers come here? Because with Social meia, the word can spread very easily about such matters of Free Electric!!
 
#19 ·
I think EVs of the future will be much improved from what we see today (or 5-10 years from now). I think it is proven electric motors are an excellent replacement for I.C.E.; BUT, power generation and storage is the issue. I'm thinking batteries are just a placeholder until they find or develop something better to power the electric motors.

EVs in the future will need:
  • On-board battery storage will need to meet or exceed power density to gasoline levels in the future
  • more clean/green power generation needs to be developed (wind, geo, hydro, solar farms, etc...)
  • development of green vehicle internal power source option to power the electric motors directly, power batteries directly, or replace the batteries.
  • wireless charging pad tech will need to be developed for home, businesses, or office usage
  • wired and wireless charging on the road when traveling in smaller towns and rest areas. Just like Route 66 days when towns were revitalized with gas, food, and attractions features before the interstate system was built.
  • development of induction recharge lanes on the interstate. Work the same as mag-lev trains that only energized the tracks below the train. Plenty of green power out west and adding a 3rd induction lane could be possible.
 
#23 ·
I, for one, respect mrgold35's comments on this forum. We have the same color MDX - mine a 2022, his a 2019 Sport Hybrid [ which was very smart] . He has outlined a superaltive EV plan of Action. They are vast and comprehensive. However, doing these things to enhance the switch from ICE to EV will require the expediture of TRILLIONS of $$$$. Bruce said it well.....now look what I started !!
Bottomline thus far seems to indicate that most of the posters agree that an EV is in their Future....but a little more down the road (excuse the pun).
i am a bit of a story teller as a 70 yo retiree. For you Yougins out there, there was a World Fair in 1964 , located in Corona Queens, NY, Shea Stadium Home to The Mets was in the shadows . Living neraby, at 13 yo, I went there often with my parents. GE had a pavillon and a show on a Carosel which preseneted the Kitchen of The Future. it was there that GE displayed the MicroWave Oven !! Wow, imagine being able to cook a Baked potato in 15-20 Minutes isntead of an hour? I don't specifically recall the advent of the Microwave oven to be sold to the public , but it was at least 20 years +/-. They had their "Bugs" for sure ( no metal in the oven, it does not Brown / Grill food, and of course, if you had a pace maker in your body - Do Not stand in front of one!!). Eventually.....over the course of years , just about every Kitchen has one. There ws no Infrastructure needs, just Plug it in and use it. Using a Microwave oven earned the term : "Nuke It". I think it serves to show that there are consequences to Change. Soon, because of warnings that MW ovens could "Leak", technology produced an isntrument to check for leakage. There are warnings to this day: Don't stand directly in front of one as it is operating due to possible leakage, Pace Maker or Not. To this day, MW ovens are great for certain things : Defrosting food, heating food, making Baked Potatoes, preparing micropwavable Cup of noodles, etc., but it can not replace the conventional oven.
Are Evs the new Microwave Oven ? Maybe? I need to know much more about it before I jump into the EV pool. My toe is in the water for now.
 
#20 ·
I leased a 2022 Acura MDx Advance last August 2021. I truly really like the car (I try not to use the term LOVE , leaving that for Family and friends). I leased it with a possible intent to buy it at a buyout price of about $36K in August 2024 ( 3 year lease via Acura Financial). My wife has a 2016 Honda CRV with about 40K miles on the clock. My lease included 10K miles per year - I won't be close to that. With the Handwriting on the Wall - whether you like it or not, EVs are Coming. My thought process of the possible Buyout was that who knows where the market for a low MPG vehicle like the MDX will be in 2024 and beyond. The tremendous increase (100%) in gasoline is adding "fuel to the Fire" of that decision.

As much as i like the MDX for many reasons (Comfort, ride and handling, Looks, etc.), at 70 YO, i don't actually need a 3 row SUV (i often wonder what the stat is for the number of 3 row SUV owners that use that 3rd Row to haul people). We use the CRV to bring grandkids for necessary neraby activities.

So, i pose this questtion: Is an EV in Your Future? For various good and bad reasons, I for one hestitate to Rush In (the song says it best: Only Fools Rush In). I continue to do my Homework on them. But i do HATE that "they" are ramming it down our Collective Throats. The benefits are many: No gas $$$; limited repairs (wheels / Tires/ brakes); Powerful HP and Torque; all new fancy Gadgety interior Toys; and no poluting the environment. The bad things: limited power Charging stations; Battery breakdown expenses; local power outages from storms that will prevent your house charging; and the recent warnings I 've read about form Electro - Magnetic Engineers about the amount of EM waves that are emitted ( akin to riding on a Huge Microwave oven everytime you drive it. And the warning to NEVER sit in the car while it is plugged in and Charging !!). And compound that "They" don't dislose how much Fossil Fuel needs to be expended to produce the extra Electricity to power these EVs. Rolling Brownouts were recently warned that will be experienced this year!! IMHO, I would have preffered a greater gravitation to high grade Hybrids ( Hyundai, Honda [new CRV] , and a number of others ). i drove a 2021 CRV Hybrid several months ago as we were teasing about upgrading our 2016 CRV. i was impressed with the increased HP, Torque, increased response, and of course the increased MPGs top 37 Highway / 28-29 City. It would have been a No Brainer to go for that CRV for a $1500 increment in price. We elected to keep our CRV , put new tires on and go with that for now. If Acura still had a Sport Hybrid for the 2022 MDX - I would have done that in a NanoSecond. They dropped in 2020 model year. That MDx had more HP, More Torque and Better MPGs.

That's my Two Cents.......oh wait, now that's worth one Cent.
Look at what you've started... ;)
Nicely done
Now lets see if Acura listens.
 
#22 ·
Bruce, I had no idea that this discussion Thread would Go To A Brave New World. I just noticed another related Thread : Will this be your last ICE vehicle? Although the thread was construed without a Poll Taker, it seems that EV technology is being embraced more and more because of: INFLATION !! One does NOT need to be a Rocket Scientist to have realized that as soon as the energy policies of this "administration" ( Can't Go There for fear of Expolusion from the Forum) were implemented and gas prices started to escalate (currently increased by 122% !! from $2.29 (regular) vs $5.09 (yesterday local by me & will be Higher shortly). that was the formula for INFLATION. But, I Digress from the topic of the Thread. I am a techie kind of person (even at 70 yo - although current technologies are Overwhelming to me now), and always embraced new technology. But over the course of the past decades of new technologies { too numerous to list}, none of those "Things" were being Shoved Down My Throat like the EVs.
God Willing, a EV Vehicle is probably in my future (at least consideration for one). To your point, I'm sure ACURA is listening, but to date they appear to be going "softly" down that road vs all the others that have gone or are going All In.
 
#21 ·
Knowing that cars have 3-5 year development times I think Acura was just caught with bad forecasting on the MDX.

The Hybrid was probably planned in the world of $4 gas around 2012, but then launched in 2017 with $2 gas to terrible sales. Acura saw the lack of sales and probably decided in 2018 to cancel the model for 2021, right as we are hitting $5 gas now. I can react quickly and shopped for a Hybrid immediately after the election results, but Acura needed much longer leadtimes and just mis-called the market.

I think they're mis-calling the market again by abandoning Hybrids and going all in on EV. Per my capacity comment above, EV's will have less than 20% market share in 7 years, and this should have been obvious to anyone who forecasts the market professionally, so they are intentionally losing out on 80% of potential customers. If I were them I would concede the mistake and hurriedly plan to resurrect the Hybrids as soon as they can (which at this point is probably 3 years out in 2025), I'm just worried by Honda's CEO statements that they don't really see this yet. It would a shame if they don't pivot back until their Acura EV sales flop in 2025, by then it would be end of the decade until they could recover and resurrect their hybrids.

The other (probably more likely) strategy is that Acura is going back to performance and abandoning luxury. I'm their target luxury (only buy Advance models) customer, and perhaps Honda wants to move those customers to Honda Touring trims. This would align better with their announced strategy of Acura going from Type S direct to EV, and Honda holding all the hybrids. That's a tough rebrand, an in my instance will be a tough pill to swallow because a big part of why I buy Acura is the service experience that isn't as high end in a Honda dealer.
 
#24 ·
I can add my 2c who once owned 2 MDX including 2019 Sports hybrid.
2017 Prius Prime plug-in with 25-35 miles range.
Finally Mustang Mach-e.
Mustang is BEV. 210 miles range in summer and with fast charge 20% to 80% in 40 minutes more than covers our needs.
if you don’t need 3 rows it’s an excellent small SUV.
Its also not about money only, though with high gas prices it’s great not to visit gas station .
Fun of driving Mustang and electronics are far better than what I had in 19 MDX.
If electric SUV had 400-500 miles range there would be very little need for ICE.
Not having an engine has big maintenance benefit, no oil change or emissions etc.
Within 5 years balance will flip with more charging stations being installed, particularly major cities.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I'm pretty sure the same debates were happening back around the last turn of the century with horse/carriage -vs- the automobile was the hot topic. The automobile didn't have the power, range, infrastructure, too expensive, features with very little improvement over a horse, and logistical support for gas/parts/maintenance. Think what world would be like if we stuck with horse (don't have to because we have +10,000 years of history with only the horse).

There is a good chance the gas powered automobile is our version of the horse and that could be holding us back from a possible future we can't even imagine today because of all the unforeseen innovations yet to come.
 
#27 ·
One area I still think needs ICE is the towing (Even that could be better in 5-10 years).
You drop range by 30-40% depending on the weight you tow.
I myself am considering purchasing a truck just for that :)

Another negative for electric is COLD weather range (drops by 30% range).
Also keep in mind those fast chargers only lets you charge up to 80% (some may allow 90%) of battery.
Thus very long trips you have to plan properly (In my case FordPass app does this automatically while I drive finding the chargers on the way to get me to destination).

With more charging stations and longer battery range, 400-500 miles (currently most cars have 200-300 mile range on a full charge) this too will be less of an issue.
 
#28 ·
Mrgold35's comments give rise to canyons of ideaology. New technologies in energy make ICE cars the Horse and Buggy of our grandparents and great grandparents generation. But like all the new technologies since the Cotton Gin, new problems arise as well. Being Global compounds that too. Two things come immediately to mind:
Nuclear Power Plants and the use of Plastics / Styrofoam. Since 1979, after cleaning up 3 Mile Island, there has not been 1 additional NPP built in America ( at least according to a recently watched Documentary), yet they dot the French Landscape in Europe. I recall when NPP, were first being developed, a key concern raised was what would we do with the nuclear waste. The responses of that day was ... well in 30 years science would be able to come up with those answers.... which did not happen. After spending upwards of $1Billion for the NPP in Shoreham Long Island, social protest never let it happen. The rush to Plastics ( remember the scene in The Graduate with Dustin Hoffman where he receives the one word advice at his college graduation party....Plastics!), is another example of not rushing in. Everybody was All In on plastics from using plastic bags for groceries, to styrofoam boxes for McDonald Happy Meals. Then We discovered it takes over 500 years for plastics to breakdown. The use of plastics was not thoroughly vetted because of the almighty Dollar $$$$. I'm not an Anti-Capitalist, but experience seems to dictate to proceed with some caution. Are Lithium batteries the NPP's of the future? What does the world do with the multi - millions of older ICE cars on and off the road (junkyards) today?
Like just about everybody's comments / posts here, an EV is already in their life or will be within 5 to 7 years. Subjectively speaking, I would prefer, more ICE / Electric Hybrid technology advancement, allowing for a more gradual EV transtion.
 
#30 ·
Can we address the myth that hybrids and EVs are better for the environment? How much fossil fuel is burned to mine the material to make the batteries? What percentage of EVs are charged by fossil fuel electric plants? What is the environmental impact of battery/car disposal when recycling isn’t an option? What would he true cost of purchase and charging were it not for heavy tax payer funded subsidies? If not for the artificial inflation of gasoline prices how much less enthusiastic would hybrid and EV buyers be? I am in no way saying we shouldn’t be working on EV solutions, but at the moment and who knows how far into the future we are nowhere near a real economical solution and we will need a per mile charge or tax on electric to replace the gasoline tax that currently funds infrastructure creation and repair. Even at $6 gas if the true cost of hybrids and EVs were delivered to the users the sales rate would be far less than what it is.
 
#39 ·
I don't know about others, but I didn't go BEV for environmental reasons (though if it helps great).
Nor did I go for money alone (if that was the reason Prius Prime was amazing).
I went BEV for fun of driving/ performance / and now it happens (high gas prices) lot cheaper to run.
Also maintenance cost of ICE is gone...

MrGold I agree Sport Hybrid was one hack of a car, one of the best I have owned till BEV.
In hind-sight Acura would have sold lot more of those at these gas prices...
As you have stated we are in transition period to BEV.
It will be more expensive and less convenient for masses just like original gas cars were.
There is even a tech to charge car batteries using coils under roads, just like wireless phone chargers.
There is no going back, some alternate (BEV or something else) to ICE is going to take off.
 
#31 ·
Hybrid powertrain = all the issues with I.C.E. and BEV rolled into one vehicle and not the long term solution; but, a placeholder for now.

BEV = it all about the electric motors. They have more hp/tq, smaller, and have more flexibility in packaging. The bad is getting enough power to the motors. We are 100 years behind on battery tech,. electric infrastructure, recharging stations, and fuel cells because of fossil fuels; but, are making progress. How long did it take for the first automobile to hit the (dirt) road until it became viable (affordable) transportation option for the masses.

It is gonna suck moving to BEV, we need to adjust our expectations, it will be expensive, and probably do environmental damage along the way until we figure it out; but, we will in the end.
 
#32 ·
mrgold35, Placeholder is the perfect word for the current hybrids. I like your taste in the MDX color too (I have a FBP / with graystone leather interior for my 2022). For the life of me, why did Acura discontinue an Hybrid for the new 2022s? All the technology (engine, etc.) is there. To be Honest, a few months ago, I was actually wrestling with a trade of my Non Type S for a Type S. I saw a poster or two (on a different Thread) who did that within a month or two after acquiring their Non S cars. They lost no $$$ other than paying more for the Type S (Advances). I'm approaching one year since I leased my 2022... Only have 5K miles on it now. I probably could still possibly do that - BUT with the skyrocketing gas prices and Exploding inflation, I don't Think I would do that. Having lots more HP, Torque, Massaging seats, Air Adjustable Suspension, and a Sport+ driving mode are novelties that will eventually wear off.
Many posters make excellent points both Pro and Con about EVs. Pkrface and Robert.z put forth issues that need strong review, especially, EVs that can Tow, Snow Plow trucks, Tractor Trailers, even Farming vehicles, and on and on about specialty service vehicles. Don't forget the Jet airliners. The Space programs and more. One issue i don't see discussed is : What the Hell are we going to do with Millions of ICE vehicles on the road. For that matter what did WE ever do about the miles of car Junkyards in this country?? Is the USA alone going to Save the Planet (Pelosi's words ,not mine), I don't think so. Way too many Culprits world wide who Nothing in that regard.
 
#33 ·
mrgold35, Placeholder is the perfect word for the current hybrids. I like your taste in the MDX color too (I have a FBP / with graystone leather interior for my 2022). For the life of me, why did Acura discontinue an Hybrid for the new 2022s? All the technology (engine, etc.) is there.
I have no clue why Acura dumped the Sport Hybrid powertrain? It should have been paid for by now since the powertrain was first used with the 2014 RLX hybrid. I'm thinking Acura:

  • really undercharged for the technology at only $1500 above a similar 3.5L sh-awd MDX. Pricing out each hybrid and suspension components is +$20,000 (3.0L only found on MDX, electronic dampers, no serpentine belt driven accessories, battery pack, 7DCT, DC inverter, TMUs, different fuel tank, FNC brake rotors, software ECU/EV upgrades)
  • gas was under $2 a gallon when the decision was made to dump the Sport Hybrid
  • sells for the RLX/NSX Sport Hybrid were always in the toilet (MDX hybrid always sold out)
  • Reviews on-line always ripped Acura a new one with the Sport Hybrid powertrain (now a lot of auto manufactures are duplicating the powertrain now)
  • a lot of buyers didn't understand the term "Sport Hybrid" and always compared it to Toyota/Lexus underpowered mpgs Hybrids
  • the Sport Hybrid powertrain would exceed the +22 MDX 3.5L performance and be very close to the 22 MDX Type-S performance with way better mpgs for $1500.
 
#34 ·
Hybrid is the perfect transition car. I dont see it as "all the issues", I see it as all the benefits of ice and EV.

You get the regen braking which saves a fortune on gas and pads, and the convenience of a 3 min fill up anywhere.
 
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