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Discussion Starter #1
OK, tonight I installed 4 Infinity 652i's in the doors. I also installed extreme dynamat in the doors as well. Thanks to all who have done this procedure before me, both the front and rear doors were little or no problem and the total time of installation was less than 2 hours.
Now, the results. I am prepared for the onslaught of objections, but I must be honest. I am not all that impressed. I checked out the sound after installing the two fronts, and could not really notice any improvement. I then proceeded to install the rears, and found there was a significant difference. In short, I am now able to hear the rear door speakers.
Overall, there is some degree of improvement, but the one issue that remains unresolved for me is the booming bass that the system now seems to put out. I tried all kinds of trebble and bass settings and I am not happy with any of the combinations. My first impression was that the sub in the rear needs to be replaced to get more in balance with the new speakers. When I put my ear up against each of the door speakers, I found that it was the front door speakers that seemed to put out to much booming bass. The rears seemed fine.
So, my next experiment will be to put the stock fronts back in and check it out. My gut tells me that this will be perfect, but we shall see. I am somewhat surprised that no one has found these same results, but it is all simply a matter of personal preference. I would be interested to hear if anyone shares my opinion, and what they have done.
 

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On the touring with Bose, the booming bass has been cited on the board. Do not remeber the post, but I believe the solution was a filter to cut the very lows to the door speakers. The size of the filter was cited in the article.

The Bose unit plays some games with equalization, and is 2 Ohms, so you probably need to tweak.

I have the "base" model, and do not notice any booming---but it is Bose. Bass could be more solid though......................
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the heads up. Same issue was cited by another poster, and was solved using bass blockers.
Before I try going back to the stock speakers I will try installing a pair of Bass blockers in the front doors.
I believe that only the front door speakers will require the blockers.
 

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I have only installed the 652is in the front door, and have the pair for the rear door waiting for a bit more spare time. I also feel like there is more booming than I would like. I also felt that the stock bose speakers exhibited this excess boominess of the bass.

Please post your comments on the bass blockers when you get them installed.
 

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I have the blockers, have not installed them yet. I still like the overall sound better. Have you disconnected the door tweeters in the pod?
Obviously that is not going to help the bass problem, but it was suggested by TCMBruce for cleaner highs. As they are probably the same quality as the stock Bose door speakers.
I am now thinking about the Polk component system. Decisions, decisions...
 

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DaleB

Where do you get the bass blockers and how are they attached to the speakers?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
mikel51 said:
I have only installed the 652is in the front door, and have the pair for the rear door waiting for a bit more spare time. I also feel like there is more booming than I would like. I also felt that the stock bose speakers exhibited this excess boominess of the bass.

Please post your comments on the bass blockers when you get them installed.

I really don't remember the booming bass being quite as prevelent with the stock speakers. Hopefully the bass blockers will fix it. I should have time in the next few days to install them and I will gladly post my observations.

I would highly recommend installing the rear door speakers. In my opinion, this is where most of the improvement I have detected to be, and there is no booming bass coming from them. The install is really quite simple. Just follow the guidance of the earlier thread that discussed the install.

This was my first time installing auto speakers, and I found it to really quite simple, given the excellent guidance from this forum.
 

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Re: DaleB

fvince said:
Where do you get the bass blockers and how are they attached to the speakers?
Circus Silly has them. Ask for Bass blockers. Get two pairs minimum, one pair will cut off bass below 100hz, and 2 caps in parallel with cut it off at 200hz. Just put them in series with the wire going to the + side of the speaker connection.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: DaleB

fvince said:
Where do you get the bass blockers and how are they attached to the speakers?
The description provided by Dale is how Danal Estes explained it in an earlier post. He soldered them into the wiring harness so that if he screwed up, he only wasted a $5 wiring harness. Sounds like good advise to me. I did a little research on the net, and have found that bass blockers are available in several "strengths" and some even have terminal connectors so that they simply pug into the wiring harness and the other end directly on the speaker.
Tommorrow I plan to visit an installation shop and now that I know a little, I will get the real lowdown on whether this will work and what "strength" blocker to use.
 

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This past weekend, while installing some interior and exterior accessories on my X and listening to CDs, I noticed two things about the sound sytem (Bose). First, all of the exterior door panels (skin?) and the passenger side rear panel where vibrating considerably. This has to adversely affect sound quality and I asssume can be fixed with dynamat. The other thing was that I placed my ears directly in front of the subwoofer and noticed that a full frequency range, other than highs, was being reproduced. This must mean there are no decent crossovers coming out of the sub amp and I am wondering if it is interfering with the sound quality of the Infinity speaker replacements?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
"and I am wondering if it is interfering with the sound quality of the Infinity speaker replacements"

You may well be right. I am not very sophistocated, and I have and will be very careful to ensure that anything I do can easily be reversed by me. At this point, I have invested less than $200 on this "upgrade" and only plan to spend $25 or so more on these bass blockers. If they don't do the trick, then I will put the stock speakers back in, give the 652i's to the kids (who will be delighted) and at some point have a professionally installed system put in. I had previously looked into a new system including an amp, new door speakers (all 6) and a new sub. I suspect that it will run in the $750-$1,000 range which will make for a great gift for my wife to give me. (hint, hint!)
 

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R Stevens

I recently noticed the exact some things you did.

To line the doors with Dynamat would require removing the panels and I just don't want to tackle that chore...especially after reading what is involved in the Service Manual. I would surely break something or at the very least introduce rattles and such.

Why wouldn't the spray form of Dynamat work in the doors? It appears that it could be applied through the speaker openings. It might not be a perfect cover, but it should help some. I'm talking about spraying the inside of the door sheet metal skins. I would use the Dyamat sheets around the speaker areas.

The subwoofer has a wide frequency response given the flat, lifeless sounds that come from it. It is certainly not just bass. I think if you replace your door speakers which I am going to do, it makes a lot of sense to replace this sub as well with something with a lower frequency response rating.

I have found a Audiobahn AWC10Q sub that is 2 ohm with a sensitivity of 92.5 dB. The stock amp should have no problem driving this. It also has a frequency response of 25-800HZ. The only problem is that a spacer will have to be built for it to fit. It is 4 3/4" deep and takes a 9" opening and has a total 10 1/4" diameter. The diameter should be about 1/4 - 3/8" larger to fit nicely and the depth might be about 1/4 too much. The hole size is not a problem. I think a 1/2 - 3/4" thick MDF spacer would be perfect and easy to do. So that is my solution for now. The sub can be seen at the website www.justaudiobahn.com ).
 

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Re: R Stevens

fvince said:


The subwoofer has a wide frequency response given the flat, lifeless sounds that come from it. It is certainly not just bass. I think if you replace your door speakers which I am going to do, it makes a lot of sense to replace this sub as well with something with a lower frequency response rating.

Woe, hold on there.
I'm all for an upgraded sub system, but I think we may be missing a few steps here.

If all you want to do is limit the frequencies of the 10" speaker (I guess we can no longer call it a subwoofer, as it currently does not function as such) to play only the frequencies a 10" sub is designed to play, you can simply insert a passive crossover at the speaker terminal. Will cost much less than a new woofer, won't need to worry about a new amp to drive it, and takes only as much time for you to remove and install 4 speaker mount screws and plug in two terminals (no custom spacers, mounting new amp, running new power/ground/remote wires, etc). I see these everywhere, but Parts Express (yes, www.partsexpress.com) seems to have a large selection. Unfortunetly, for a 2 ohm load, you will need to make your own custom crossover, but its easy, just to insert an inductor coil, and attach a cap between the terminals. The harder part is figuring out the values. Looking at the chart and diagram at Parts Express and compensating for a 2ohm load instead of 4 ohms, for a second order 12db/oct slope you can get a 100Hz crossover with an inductor value of 4.5mH (can use 4.7mH also, $7.83-12.78) and a cap value of 562.70uF (round out to 500.0uF, $5.20). If you decide to go this route, I'll guide you to an easy way to install this without special tools (needle nose & electrical tape is all you may need), or any permanent changes. Installed a few of these before and they work as advertised, mainly because you put it together yourself.
This is just another idea.

Install shops are supposed to be able to do this, but typically they often lack fundamental math skills in electrical physics and I have to keep correcting them, or just get the components for them so they don't have to think, and even then they sometimes mix up where the components go and Ihave to undo their work and do it over myself. Needles to say, i started doing most of my own work after these kinds of episodes.
 

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Re: R Stevens

fvince said:
I recently noticed the exact some things you did.

To line the doors with Dynamat would require removing the panels and I just don't want to tackle that chore...especially after reading what is involved in the Service Manual. I would surely break something or at the very least introduce rattles and such.

Why wouldn't the spray form of Dynamat work in the doors? It appears that it could be applied through the speaker openings. It might not be a perfect cover, but it should help some. I'm talking about spraying the inside of the door sheet metal skins. I would use the Dyamat sheets around the speaker areas.

Spray deadeners are a great solution and save a lot of time by not having to painstakenly apply each strip of material by hand. But the panel still has to be removed to mask all the moving parts and linkages, door handle connections, lock mechanisms, harness interconnects, window regulator mechanism and motor, and the window glass slide rails (people find they suddenly can't roll down their windows because the guide rails are filled with this rubbery spray). Not to mention that you need to be able to get the spray material in every part of the door, which can't be done from just the speaker door shell, plus won't the rain basket in the front panel obstruct the manuevering of a big spray can? You also need 2-3 layers to equate a single layer of rolled material. For these reasons, I ended up using the sheeted material for the main surfaces, and spray for the hard to get to spots, after thorough taping up, of course. If you try to spray without taping up, you WILL regret the action. Sorry to be so sharp, but I wouldn't want to see somebody's day (and door interior) ruined.

fvince said:
I would use the Dyamat sheets around the speaker areas.
. . . just wondering how you plan to use Dynamat around the speaker areas without removing the trim panel?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
TheyCallMeBruce:

I would be interested in your thoughts regarding the bass blockers, and what level of blockage you would recommend for the front door speakers. Also, I would be quite interested in any detail instruction you might be able to provide regarding your post about altering the existing sub.
This is my first attempt at working on a car audio system, and it actually has been fun thus far.

While I agree that the Infinities are an improvement, there is still work to be done.

Thanks in advance.
 

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TheyCallMeBruce

O.K., before I install a new real subwoofer and all that goes with that, I'll take you up on your offer to limit the frequency response of my existing 10" woofer (not subwoofer as I was told by the dealer).

I have several needle nose pliers and lots of electrical tape so all I need are the correct parts. I've gone to partsexpress.com and found the inductor and cap with the values you suggest. I will order them today.

Now what do I do when they arrive? Just keep in mind, that I've never modified a speaker in my life. Hoever, I am willing to give it a shot with a little help and guidance. I am a moderately proficient DIY'er.

What frequency response are we aiming for with these mods?

BTW, I was going to use the sheets of Dyamat around the speaker area on the front panels and surrounding the speaker in the back as shown in some pictures on this forum. I can't see how I could get much on the door sheet metal skins through the speaker holes.

I was afraid of the answer I would get on the use of the damping spray inside the doors. I will look again at the difficulty of removing the door panels (both front and back). It just seems logical that damping those doors will help a lot in the sound quality (and general noise level from the street). The service manual says I need a special tool that looks like a large screwdriver with a "v" cut out of the business end. Special tools suggest special knowledge in their use and that is a little intimidating.

Look forward to the project and hearing how to do it correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Re: TheyCallMeBruce

fvince said:
O.K., before I install a new real subwoofer and all that goes with that, I'll take you up on your offer to limit the frequency response of my existing 10" woofer (not subwoofer as I was told by the dealer).

I have several needle nose pliers and lots of electrical tape so all I need are the correct parts. I've gone to partsexpress.com and found the inductor and cap with the values you suggest. I will order them today.

.
fvince,

OK, you are one step ahead of me...I have the pliers and the tape...but unable to make sure I have the right part numbers at partsexpress.com. Any assistance would be appreciated.
 

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Maik

I just ordered the parts suggested by Bruce.

Here are the part numbers for each. the 500uF-100V Non-Polarized Capacitor is 027-378. The .47mH 16g. Foil Inductor is 266-666.

Both of these are found under "Crossover Parts" after clicking on Speaker Building on the left hand side navigation area.

Not much money involved here either. If this works (not to slight Bruce, but I'm doing the work), its a lot cheaper than a new speaker.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Re: Maik

fvince said:
I just ordered the parts suggested by Bruce.


Not much money involved here either. If this works (not to slight Bruce, but I'm doing the work), its a lot cheaper than a new speaker.
Agreed.

Thanks for the assistance.
 

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TheyCallMeBruce

I've taken a second look at the door panel removal issue and have another question.

The manual says to "detach the clips and release the hooks, then remove the switch panel". How do I get to the clips? Is this done by prying up on the fake wood panel cover? It is not obvious just looking at the panel. They say that this needs to be removed to disconnect the power connections for the power windows and mirror.

The special tool needed to remove the panel is really not all that special after all. It is a clip remover which you know full well. Will have to find one at a local auto parts shop.

Everything else seems pretty straight forward. The back doors don't appear to be anymore problematic either.

I am determined to put sound dampening material in the doors.

Thanks,
 
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