[Apex1]

So I have been looking for a 2nd gen X to replace my Honda Ridgeline. It will be a high mileage commuter and to tow my track car. I have driven both versions of the 2nd gen and like them both. However the 10'+ seems to leave the line better and I liked that. Obviously it has an extra gear and better gearing overall.

I settled on buying an 10-13 until the oil consumption issue became more apparent. When buying a used vehicle, you can inspect lots of things, but there is now way to inspect for oil consumption. Because of that I am thinking of going with the older version.

So the question is, can you improve the off the line performance of the 07-09? Is there a CPU flash or a mod that actually works to improve roll out? Other than that I like the 07-09, plus it's a little cheaper. :smile2:

 

[skirmich]

You can upgrade the J-Pipe, Install some HFPC and use a K Tuner Flasher for extra low end power.
But overall the gearing does not make the MDX a great off the line car.... Even on the 6 Speed is not an acceleration speed demon like the 3rd Gen.

For Towing the MDX stock power obliterates the Ridgeline so I think you need to first buy the MDX and see if the power is not really to your liking before shelling out 1500 bucks for +20whp.

 

[Apex1]

My love for the Ridgeline is exactly why the Mdx is at the top of my list. All awd v6 hondas are slow out of the hole. I believe this is not a hardware issue, but hondas conservative powetrain logic. Really, the only reason I prefer the 10-13, is because it is stronger off the line. If the 07-09 can be tuned for better 0-60, I would go with that. Does the j-pipe and tune really help? I don't care about peak hp. Just off the line pull and midrange tq.

Third gen is out of my budget.

 

[WilburMDX]

I don't have a J-pipe or a tune so I can't comment on that, but maybe a sprint-booster would work for you..? Again I don't have one of those but I've read it improves throttle response. It's a little cheaper too compared to a J-pipe and a tune. ($289)

Yeah, the mdx isn't too great off the line, but where it shines in its passing power and ability. Once you get up to speed, about 40 or so, if you punch it, it will move. I've noticed that mine looks for every opportunity to downshift, it sucks for gas mileage but for power its great, theres almost no lag when I punch it to pass someone on a backroad. Compared to my 2011 honda accord, the mdx is a rocket.

 

[Apex1]

Yeah the Mdx is no dog. Even my rl is fine. Just wish both had more out of the hole. The sprint booster is just increases the demand signal from the throttle. It does not change the actual commanded throttle angle.

If you use a scanner to view accelerator pedal vs actual commanded throttle, you can tell how conservative honda is. They don't like to place high shock loads on the drivetrain. Example, if you floor it from a dead stop (100% demand). You will see the commanded starts as low as 35% and then ramps up as the vehicle accelerates, maybe peaking at only 70% or so. It also uses timing, fuel delivery and other ways to reduce drivetrain load off the line.

If the factory tune was changed to say race spec (max output all the time), I think most drivers would be shocked to see how much performance was lurking under the hood.

FYI, I don't want this for a daily driver. Just a bit more of the off the line potential than the factory gives you. I think they were particularly gun shy after their transmission debacle.

 

[skirmich]

It is not honda protecting the drivetrain at all, Drivetrain is very strong...
Its the drivetrain loss that prevents the "No low end torque" Engine to shine.

Honda engines do not have low end torque and that is a fact they are tuned for high end peak power... So even if Honda allowed 100% Throttle command it wont develop full 275lbs by 1K RPM, AFAIK Full Torque comes up to by 4000K RPM so you will need to be moving anyway to feel that power and MAN when it does?? The MDX has superior Hwy Passing power for its segment like crazy.

So if you want low end torque, skip the MDX altogether it wont happen on any Acura or Honda product.. You will be better off with a Grand Cherokee HEMI which are cheaper or about the same price per year of the MDX.

 

[Apex1]

Have you made any modifications to any vehicle ever? If so maybe you loved that vehicle, but wanted it to suit you a bit more. I don't want some hemi crap just because it has gobs of torque. If tq was my 1st priority I wouldn't be looking at an Mdx.

I love the rl and Mdx on the high cam. Just like my f20c. What Honda does best is provide flexibility across a wide range of rpm. However they are a bit soft on the bottom. Especially rolling out off the line. Maybe something could be done to improve this? Maybe it will never get any better.

I am no tuning expert but from I have seen Honda commands lots of torque management right off the line. However it's apples and oranges. Even if I could add fuel and spark under wot and increase tb plate angle, maybe the results would be eh..

That's what I am asking. Is there anyway to improve the off the line performance? By say spending no more than 5k?

 

[WilburMDX]

Yes, I know the sprint booster doesn't change throttle angle. It won't miraculously give you power you didn't have before. It tricks the throttle into thinking you gave it more gas then you did, so thats why I said it may help.

The only other solution is what @skirmich said, j-pipe, hfpc, and k-tuner all for $1500. And then once those are installed, just brake torque launch it at every stop!

 

[Apex1]

Like suggested I will drive it stock. If that doesn't work I will try the Jpipe and K-tuner from RV6.

Thanks

 

[skirmich]

You will be surprised... I have outran an ARMADA V8 in 2WD with just the driver with the MDX, It overtook me past 60 but it got owned off the line.

Just remember to brake launch it and you will be fine on stock power.

 

[Alpine003]

Besides the exhaust and ECU mods mentioned above which I personally think is a good value based on how much whp you're getting from a na 6, don't forget going with lighter tire/wheel combo will net you a tiny but noticeable amount out of the hole.

My BMW that has BBS RG-Rs for example, noticed quite a bit better acceleration from 0-50.

 

[skirmich]

^ If Honda hadn´t removed the Headers from the heads the gains would be much more drastic.. Case in Point the 2G TL-S gets around 20whp with just a Header Upgrade and those headers cost between 200-350 bucks.

1500 bucks for 25whp is pretty pathetic for a J Series.
The Trick to make a good 3.7 to make power is to Get a J32A2 Heads + J35A3 bore it out to 3.7L and bamm you got yourself a 400HP engine with all the bolt ons.. Fatty (A senior mod on Acurazine) is making +300whp on the Manual transmission on his TL-S 3.7 I Myself am Making 252whp on my fully bolted on J32A2 (God bless the headers).


This just tells you how restricted/capped the J37A1 is or just how drastic the parasitic loss is. 1500 bucks for 25whp is not worth it, for that money you could probably go budget Turbo Setup which will yield better gains (Not for a long time that is hahahaa).

 

[Alpine003]

1500 bucks for 25whp is pretty pathetic for a J Series.

1500 bucks for 25whp is not worth it, for that money you could probably go budget Turbo Setup which will yield better gains (Not for a long time that is hahahaa).

I guess it's all relative. The chart I've seen is around 30whp IIRC and not 25. Peak gains means very little to me in the real world, especially on a SUV that doesn't live in the high rpm's all the time. It's all about broadband power, the area "under the curve". From the charts I've seen, the 30whp seems pretty impressive(obviously not comparable to a turbo kit). However, you won't have the heating and longevity issues of a turbo so I'd gladly settle for the NA route.

Personally I'd be happy making ~30whp on an AWD car for $1500, considering there's guys paying $800+ for an intake that may make 5-10hp at most. My $.02

 

[skirmich]

Indeed...
I would rather have better low end torque though so Supercharger maybe? A ROTEX Build so make up the lack of low end?

 

[Apex1]

Looking at all the dyno sheets, it seems like the best low mid range gains come from the j-pipe, second cat delete and k-tuner. That setup is about 1k. You can add the hfc down pipes for more peak hp, but not much more low end.

Like I said, I just want some more power off the line. A chirp of the tires during a hard launch.

 

[skirmich]

Chirp the tires during hard launch? Yeah not going to happen even with all Mods...
That would require a wicked a mount of power to be able to chirp 4 tires..
SH-AWD is a Full Time AWD system so all 4 wheels powered at all times.

 

[Apex1]

Ok maybe that's a dream. But this is a pretty hard launch.

 

[skirmich]

You can do that in stock power... That is the front tires unloading when the weight shifts to the back.
Just Brake Launch it and vualá! Also a lot of variables, If you had loose dirt on the ground you can make all 4 wheels chirp. That is too dark to see if there was any dirt on the ground

 

[Apex1]

Ha, I have done a few test drives, so I didn't think that kind of activity would be appropriate. Good to know thanks.

Like you said either way it will be better than what I have now. Once I get one I will drive it stock for a while. If not enough, I would consider the j-pipe and k-tuner.

 

[Apex1]

Also of other interest. The 5AT gear ratios in the MDX are slightly lower than the Ridgeline. The final drive is the same and the MDX has .5" smaller tires.

I am kind of surprised the MDX has lower gearing than a truck. It may be that they tuned the J35 in the RL for more torque (not peak, low rpm).