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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone! I just the changed the oil on my X yesterday, and while I was underneath the vehicle watching the oil drip out of the oil pan I was thinking how long should I let the oil drip for. I know at the quick lube places they probably only wait around 30 seconds, I usually wait about 4-5minutes. I remove the cap from the crank case before also to let the oil come out faster. How long do you all wait. Also while we are on the subject, what Brand and weight of oil do you use, and what type of filter. I used a castrol blend 5-30 with a fram filter. The time before this one I used Mobil 1 but I did not notice any improvement in performance and the used oil looked just as black and broken down as regular oil. Thanks for any replies.:)
 

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I let it drip until it stops dripping (overnight). I use Mobil 1 5w-30 and a factory Honda oil filter that I purchased from Tim.
 

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I normally wait at least a minute maybe two. If you change regularly, the residual left inside is negligible. Especially if you changed it while the engine is fully warmed.
All detergent oil, synthetic or not, gets dark as it retains more contaminants.
I use Mobil 1 more for longevity purposes and the 'reserve' it affords the engine in extreme (but rare) situations.
I doubt perfromance gains would noticed.
Some less friction and better mileage perhaps. You might notice that by going to 5-20 as recommended by Acura.
Nothing against Fram, but I would rather stay with Acura filters. Changing them every time is probably more important than the brand, as long you buy name brands.
What interval do you change oil at, and how do you do you know it's broken down?
Oil doesn't really breakdown except in very extreme situations, but it does get contaminated with dirt, all kinds of by products from the combustion process. That's the main reason to change it.
 

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As long as practicable....

Maybe until after dinner, or after I rotate the wheels, or whatever. Compared to the amount you change, the residual is negligible.

I usually always use factory filters- a bad filter can hurt you, especially if it restricts flow/bypass. Safer to stick with Honda.

If you are replacing filters and oil every 3-4k, why waste money on synthetic (IMHO)... But there are huge arguments and posts on this subject- from "why would porsche use it on new vehicles if it wasn't better" to "well, it can't hurt". Whatever. I've got close to 200k on a Japanese engine without synthetics. I suppose if I had used Mobil 1 from new I might expect 400k, alas now I only expect 250-300k.

Paradoxically, I am a believer in Synthetic ATF- primarily becasue the change interval is so much greater- the superior thermal breakdown protection is more likely a significant benefit.

Ard
 

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ardvarkus said:



Paradoxically, I am a believer in Synthetic ATF- primarily becasue the change interval is so much greater- the superior thermal breakdown protection is more likely a significant benefit.

Ard
Yeah, longer change interval, but subjected to different stresses and levels of contamination.

But all that aside, Ard, as you have previously stated, the real problem with a synthetic ATF is it's compatibility with Honda's fluid. And this is one very smooth shifting transmssion.

Most synthetics mfrs. claim they are compatible. Of course there other options, such as more frequent changes, flushes, and additives such as Lubeguard (also not recommended by Honda, but have a strong following of owners & mechanics according to other forums) and the addition of coolers.

But staying with Honda ATF, the idea of doing a basic drain of the tranny with every oil change is not a bad way to go.
If that could be followed up with a flush every 30K one should be in very good shape. We've been at this juncture many times before, and I think as conscientous owners, our vehicles will certainly give us many years of fine service even if our methods are somewhat different, nobody can say we are indifferent about this subject. :)
 

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we are starting to go off topic, but here's my 2 cents.

No synthetic for oil changes, just valvoline or havoline every 4k miles. regarding filters, DONOT, I repeat donot use FRAM. They suck. I would recommend u buy a few honda/acura filters at a discount and use them. here is a simple comparison a prelude site did a couple years back.
Oil Filter Link


regarding ATF, i like to get a complete flush at 30K(subsequent flushes every 60K). then i put in a bottle of prolong ATF, followed by MOBIL 1 synthetic ATF fluid. I have to figure out if this is possible on the 'X, but this has worked for me in my other cars very well.
 

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Great article! I will stick to Honda filters!
I stuck to Mazda filters on my RX7 and was told by numerous enthusiasts and mechanics that was a given for a rotary.
But definitely no synthetic, which is contrary to what one would think because of the greater heat produced by the rotary engine.
But synthetics burn at higher temps, and leave deposits when injected into the chambers for added lubrication, as they are for rotaries. Conventional oil just burns away.
Sorry, I digress, but these are interesting topics.
I would tread very lightly with the use of synthetics in place of Honda ATF. They claim a difference in smoothness of shifting if you use Dexron based ATF for a substitute in an emergency. The better synthetics like Mobil, are supposed to work with any tranny. As much as I am a proponent of Mobil 1, I still have a bit of reservation when it comes to Honda transmission applications.
As far as additives, I believe Lubeguard is the most widely accepted by transmission mechanics, RV mechanics,
and towing experts. Does not mean Prolong, or Spectrum, or some other is not as good. Just don't read that much about them.
 

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MDXLuvr, I disagree

As far as the "drip" time, I usually wait couple minutes to reinsert the drain plug. As mentioned in the posts above, residual oil is negligible.

As far as oil, I change it at 5K intervals and use Pennzoil in the viscosity recommended by the manufacturer (in the case of 2001 MDX, it is 5W-30).

When it comes to oil filters, I strongly disagree with MDXLuvr's comment:
regarding filters, DONOT, I repeat donot use FRAM. They suck. I would recommend u buy a few honda/acura filters at a discount and use them.
1. The author of the study provided via "Oil Filter Link" above indicates that "this is not a scientific test", and that he "make no claims as to any filter material shown here with respect to flow or filtration". Moreover, he admits that "opinions stated in the Comments of each filter summary and the Conclusions section are just that, opinions".

2. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in Canada) indicates that "This filter, though, when opened, is identical in construction to a Fram. Same "fuzzy" media, dent from string in media, glued cardboard end caps, bypass valve...".

3. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in USA) further notes that "The US media looks much, much worse than the Fram. The media is noticeably "fuzzy" with small fibers protruding out from every angle. ...the furry nature of the media makes me question how long it lasts and what it will release into the oil system."

MDXLuvr, based on the above observations from the study, your comment recommending a Honda oil filter does not make sense. The author of the study concludes that "Essentially you will have to decide for yourself." If the highest perceived quality filter is what you are looking for, then Honda filter is certainly not the answer.

I agree with DaleB's comment in one of the above posts that "Changing them [oil filters] every time is probably more important than the brand, as long you buy name brands." I think what's also more important than the oil or filter brand used is the reasonable and consistent maintenance interval.

To conclude, as with any other products, using specific oil and filter brand is a matter of personal preference. I have been using Fram filters on all my cars for the past 20+ years without any problems at all. One of my past cars ('77 280Z) went for over 200,000 miles with regular oil change intervals (using Fram) before I decided to sell it. So for me, Fram works fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thaks for all the replies guys/and/or gals. In regards to my observation of the Mobil 1 oil at change: when I said it looked as broken down as regular oil I was equating the blackness of the oil with break down. From reading the posts here, it seems that the blackness is caused by contaminants and does not necessarily indicate breakdown. However, if synthetic oil gets just as contaminated as natural oil, then it should be changed just as often as natural oil right? If that's true then it seems synthetic is not worth the extra money.
 

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How long to wait

At least one beer.

Sometimes a couple beers.

Beer should be at least the color of 10W30 though; 10W40 is even better. And savor it. Down it too quickly, and you'll have too much residual oil left.
 

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gokings55 said:
However, if synthetic oil gets just as contaminated as natural oil, then it should be changed just as often as natural oil right? If that's true then it seems synthetic is not worth the extra money.
Using that logic I might as well use the cheapest oil I can find. What's the difference?

All oil suspends contaminants thats why it looks black when coming out. Color can not tell you HOW contaminated it is.
Synthetic or not, is personal choice. There is a lot more involved than the color of the oil.
Synthetics burn at a much higher temperature than conventional oil, meaning they are able to tolerate higher temperatures, as well as flow better at extreme low temps. Chances are your vehicle will never see those extremes. The point being, color tells you nothing about that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ghost, that was one of the best replies I've seen in a long time! Thanks for the laugh.
 

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Re: MDXLuvr, I disagree

mgmdx said:
When it comes to oil filters, I strongly disagree with MDXLuvr's comment:

1. The author of the study provided via "Oil Filter Link" above indicates that "this is not a scientific test", and that he "make no claims as to any filter material shown here with respect to flow or filtration". Moreover, he admits that "opinions stated in the Comments of each filter summary and the Conclusions section are just that, opinions".

2. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in Canada) indicates that "This filter, though, when opened, is identical in construction to a Fram. Same "fuzzy" media, dent from string in media, glued cardboard end caps, bypass valve...".

3. Author's evaluation of a Honda filter (made in USA) further notes that "The US media looks much, much worse than the Fram. The media is noticeably "fuzzy" with small fibers protruding out from every angle. ...the furry nature of the media makes me question how long it lasts and what it will release into the oil system."

MDXLuvr, based on the above observations from the study, your comment recommending a Honda oil filter does not make sense. The author of the study concludes that "Essentially you will have to decide for yourself." If the highest perceived quality filter is what you are looking for, then Honda filter is certainly not the answer.



Good points, but let me try to explain.

First of all, nobody, I repeat nobody claims this is a scientific study. It is a simple comparison done by a bunch of honda car fanatics. The disclaimer is there to protect them from the oil filter companies.

second, you are right, the honda filter was some what disappointing. However, like the author mentioned, the key variables are filer element surface area, and filter element thickness. Based on this, the Honda filter in japan(160.8" of surface area) is superior to the honda filter made in canada(150.9"), which is superior to the honda filter made in u.s.(148.5"). since all three share the same thickness, that is not an issue. The Fram extra guard filter has only 101.3" of element surface area. this is significantly lower than the honda filters! It also has the same thickness. The Fram tough guard has 117" of element surface area, however, it does have twice the thickness(its also twice as expensive). That is why i recommend honda filters!

again, i this is not scientific, but sure is better than u or i guessing which is a better filter.
 

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Dealer filter vs Aftermarket

I must say I do believe that the dealer filters are always better than the aftermarket filters. A distributor of all major filters once told me that all filters are usually rated in number of hours it can filter. The dealer filters are always rated at higher number of hours to filter. Most people don't realize that once the filter has reached it full number of hours or full capacity it has a bypass that actually lets the oil pass directly thru without filtering to avoid burning out your engine. That's why you should follow a 3000-5000 mile oil change. It actually depends how many hours you drive a day. Even you didn't drive a mile and just idled for a month the oil will still need change at hour rated or capacity. So back to the filter compaison, dealer filters always have higher number of hours and higher capacity of filters before the bypass kicks in. They do cost a little more but are better overall. I've still used fram just kept to 3000 mile oil changes. Fram is the only aftermarket I would consider especially if doing a 3000 oil change or 3 months they are fine. I'm just a high performance and would rather use the acura over the frams. My 2 cents:9:
 

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miles vs time

I have noticed recommendations in the past that oil be changed every 3K miles or 3 months. Is that still the rule? Being that i expect to put around 6-8K miles per year, should I only have 2-3 oil changes per year? Or does the oil break down over time also, regardless of miles used, meaning I should still get 4 oil changes a year, even if I only do 6K miles a year?
thanks=larry
 

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re: Time btwn oil changes

Oil GENERALLY will not break down over time. Oil is also NOT generally "hygroscopic" -- it won't attract water. (there are exceptions, and other combustion by-products can/do get into the oil-- though Honda has a reputation of building 'tight' engines...)

That being said, if the "low mileage" you put on is in small trips, involves lots of time in heavy traffic, and/or is when moving heavy loads then you MUST change the oil based on TIME.

If the "low mileage" is put on mostly on longer trips, in moderate/light traffic, with lighter loads & normal speeds, you could probably get by with 3K intervals/twice a year changes.

The real question is cost effectiveness -- in a low mileage situation (either 'hard miles' or 'easy') you already have LOWER than average ownership costs (fuel, depreication due to mileage, maintence items) so YOU have to decide whether saving the additional $50-75 for two more oil changes REALLy makes any sense...
 

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Re: miles vs time

larryhot13 said:
I have noticed recommendations in the past that oil be changed every 3K miles or 3 months. Is that still the rule? Being that i expect to put around 6-8K miles per year, should I only have 2-3 oil changes per year? Or does the oil break down over time also, regardless of miles used, meaning I should still get 4 oil changes a year, even if I only do 6K miles a year?
thanks=larry
I go 3000 miles or 3 months.
 

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gokings55 said:
Hi everyone! I just the changed the oil on my X yesterday, and while I was underneath the vehicle watching the oil drip out of the oil pan I was thinking how long should I let the oil drip for. I know at the quick lube places they probably only wait around 30 seconds, I usually wait about 4-5minutes. I remove the cap from the crank case before also to let the oil come out faster. How long do you all wait. Also while we are on the subject, what Brand and weight of oil do you use, and what type of filter. I used a castrol blend 5-30 with a fram filter. The time before this one I used Mobil 1 but I did not notice any improvement in performance and the used oil looked just as black and broken down as regular oil. Thanks for any replies.:)
Try to make sure the suv is flat and wait at most 5 minutes, most of oil would be removed at that point. If there is any left it is such a small amount it will not matter.
 

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OK. So here is another twist....

HOW long do you think the DEALER waits??? Should we do a poll?

a. 5 minutes
b. However long it takes until there is no more than one drip every 30 seconds
c. Varies with ambient temperature, there are instructions in the Service Manual
d. As long as it takes to take out the plug, remove the old washer, take off the filter, screw a new filter on, and reinstall the plug

Of course, given what they charge, you know the real answer....

Ard
 
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