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Discussion Starter #1
What aftermarket performance suspension parts are available for a 2g Mdx? This is for the non-sport version.

Advance/sport rear sway bar
Front poly swaybar bushings

That's all I found from doing searches. I hope there is more. I know tires will help but I would like to stiffen up the ride and reduce body roll. It would be great if someone made coilovers for the x.
 

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Reduce Body Roll? I think you are not pushing the X far enough to be feeling Body Roll once you keep the RPM high enough SH-AWD will counter most of the understeer to your advantage and body roll is minimal.. If you release the pedal while in corners then that is the problem... You have to keep the RPM high so SH-AWD can do its thing.

In any case to answer your question upgrade the sway bars to the Sport (Advance) and you are set, The suspension is hard as it is and SH-AWD eliminates most of the understeer.. Get wider tires while you are it or just get grippier stock sized tires.

Experience from: I do Track Days with my TL-S and Touge Sessions, Yes I have touge´d the MDX quite a lot.
 

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SH-AWD is indeed impressive at minimizing understeer and body roll, as long as you keep your foot pressed firmly into the throttle. That may be easier to do on a track than on public roads. :surprise: But I do love those sweeping corners where I can let it rip and dust off unsuspecting Beemers. >:)

Agree with upgrading sway bars.

Polyethylene bushings would be punishing on public roads and they are notorious for squeaking. That's a big compromise for a small benefit, IMO. Did it many years ago on a Honda Prelude and wished I hadn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Just looking to stiffen the feel up a bit. Its a bit too soft for my tastes. I appreciate the SH-AWD can help rotate the car under throttle. I am not looking to track the X. Just change the feel of the suspension.

Is the front advance bar worth the work?
 

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If you still have original struts and shocks, you might try going KYB front and back. I changed to KYB in my accord and the ride is more bumpy because they are stiffer.
 

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^^ Agree
Aftermarket KYB Shocks always seem to firm up the suspension even if they are the OEM Manufacturer (Which they are on everything Honda and Acura).

Still you have to keep SH-AWD in the Power Band to eliminate body roll its quite disconcerting because you are not used to keep pressing the gas while in corners on public roads... If you go to a track it will be easier to understand SH-AWD behavior. On public roads its harder because your sense of responsibility will kick in and tell you that you have to slow down in corners.

If you can find a low traffic touge area you can test it out, You MUST keep using Sport Shift to keep it over the power band at all times, It will freak you out how well and composed the MDX turns under power, IT CRAVES to be pushed under power. If you release the pedal in corners all hell breaks loose since the MDX will convert into a FWD Minivan in that situation and no amount of Sway Bars and suspension ride will help. SH-AWD and High RPMs are your Cornering Best friends.
 

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^^ Agree
Aftermarket KYB Shocks always seem to firm up the suspension even if they are the OEM Manufacturer (Which they are on everything Honda and Acura).

Still you have to keep SH-AWD in the Power Band to eliminate body roll its quite disconcerting because you are not used to keep pressing the gas while in corners on public roads... If you go to a track it will be easier to understand SH-AWD behavior. On public roads its harder because your sense of responsibility will kick in and tell you that you have to slow down in corners.

If you can find a low traffic touge area you can test it out, You MUST keep using Sport Shift to keep it over the power band at all times, It will freak you out how well and composed the MDX turns under power, IT CRAVES to be pushed under power. If you release the pedal in corners all hell breaks loose since the MDX will convert into a FWD Minivan in that situation and no amount of Sway Bars and suspension ride will help. SH-AWD and High RPMs are your Cornering Best friends.
That is strange b/c I read SH AWD can distribution engine brake as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
^^ Agree
Aftermarket KYB Shocks always seem to firm up the suspension even if they are the OEM Manufacturer (Which they are on everything Honda and Acura).

Still you have to keep SH-AWD in the Power Band to eliminate body roll its quite disconcerting because you are not used to keep pressing the gas while in corners on public roads... If you go to a track it will be easier to understand SH-AWD behavior. On public roads its harder because your sense of responsibility will kick in and tell you that you have to slow down in corners.

If you can find a low traffic touge area you can test it out, You MUST keep using Sport Shift to keep it over the power band at all times, It will freak you out how well and composed the MDX turns under power, IT CRAVES to be pushed under power. If you release the pedal in corners all hell breaks loose since the MDX will convert into a FWD Minivan in that situation and no amount of Sway Bars and suspension ride will help. SH-AWD and High RPMs are your Cornering Best friends.
I will try anything once! However I almost don't believe what you are saying. Mid corner with trailing or maintenance throttle the X just feels like it wants to roll and then push. If I apply power (and lots of it) the car will shift to rotation?
 

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That is strange b/c I read SH AWD can distribution engine brake as well.
One of the claimed benefits of the new "sport-hybrid SH-AWD" is that it can distribute regenerative braking at the rear ( using an electric motor as a generator ), and thus deliver torque vectoring while off-throttle. It can actually run one motor as a generator and deliver the power to the other one in the twin motor rear set-up, if I understand it correctly.

VSA will apply ABS braking as necessary to keep you on the road in slippery conditions, but I don't think it will engage under normal driving conditions unless you are at or beyond the limits of available tire grip.

If you have a reference for distribution of engine braking for the "conventional" SH-AWD system, I'd be interested in reading it. My experience is as Skirmich says, if you lift the throttle while you're using torque vectoring to power around a curve, Bad Things Happen.
 

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I will try anything once! However I almost don't believe what you are saying. Mid corner with trailing or maintenance throttle the X just feels like it wants to roll and then push. If I apply power (and lots of it) the car will shift to rotation?
Yep. Find a nice sweeper on an open highway and check it out. :grin:
 

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Aftermarket KYB Shocks always seem to firm up the suspension even if they are the OEM Manufacturer (Which they are on everything Honda and Acura).
KYB claims they valve "replacement" aftermarket shocks to compensate for suspension wear, presumably meaning bushings. Agree they stiffen the ride overall if the bushings aren't completely shot ( or if you do the right thing and replace bushings with new OEM or equivalent ). But I think Showa is an OEM supplier for some Honda/Acura models.

[edit] Speaking of bushings, for a higher-mileage vehicle, sway bar bushings are probably the first thing to think about, along with shocks, but they aren't the only bushings to think about.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I think the shocks are OK or at least doing what they were designed to do. I don't think I would try KYB OEM replacements with only the hope the valving is stiffer.

However if there was a performance shock for the MDX like a Bilstein B6 or Koni Sport, I would have ordered them already.

I now know the options are pretty limited.
 

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I will try anything once! However I almost don't believe what you are saying. Mid corner with trailing or maintenance throttle the X just feels like it wants to roll and then push. If I apply power (and lots of it) the car will shift to rotation?
You should believe what he's saying. The sh-awd system in the mdx is really that good. Look at the MID screen between the tach and the speedo and you can tell what wheel is getting torque and so on. The more you push it during a corner, the more torque will be given to the outside rear wheel. Its fun to watch the system do its thing because it really is smart.

I suggest you find a back road to try it out on so you can gain confidence in it. The mdx can corner better then most of your regular fwd sedans, like my honda accord.

Don't be afraid to push it.
 

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That is strange b/c I read SH AWD can distribution engine brake as well.
I´ve driven quite a few rides on my Track days with AWD systems, Quattro comes to mind and they all behave slightly different ON and OFF Power.. The MDX has one of the worst duality I ever seen... The car is bat **** horrible OFF the Power in a Corner because it doesn´t seem to be AWD at all, it almost convert into the worst FWD mini van you can possibly imagine.

I do not think conventional SH-AWD do anything like Performance engine braking as is; (Torque Vectoring the Inside Wheel with engine brake to get you into a corner while off the gas). Perhaps the issue is that the MDX was tuned relying so much on SH-AWD Torque Vector to turn that the off power performance was severely hindered or simply a second thought, I think this is the problem because SH-AWD Torque Vectoring does not work outside the power band you must be at least half the throttle to Torque Vector but SH-AWD does not seem to offer Torque Vector braking at least not in the 2G MDX.

Perhaps the New Sport Hybrid was supposedly to do that (Performance Torque Vector braking) but the Review I saw says that Regenerative Braking is quite weak on the new Sport Hybrid so I do not think they enhanced that feature that well, Ill need to test drive one to its full potential :D


I will try anything once! However I almost don't believe what you are saying. Mid corner with trailing or maintenance throttle the X just feels like it wants to roll and then push. If I apply power (and lots of it) the car will shift to rotation?
There are obvious limits to what speed the MDX can safely corner but that speed is quite high and I firmly believe is Traction Limited.. The top speed around a corner I have apex without any body roll is about 100mph any higher than that and body roll is not the issue but the tire wall flexing below the wheel which is quite disturbing. Body Roll is almost none-existant in an MDX under power but its highly present and off setting if you release power in a corner.. I believe the Sport Sway Bars compensate for OFF Power turning with the stronger sway bars but do very little ON Power compared to the Stock sway bars.

Remember that Acura tuned the MDX at the Freaking Nurburgring so anything your throw at it will pale in comparison unless you are giving it the absolute maximum. Also I think since the car has SH-AWD throwing any other performance shock (Bilstein, KONI, Etc) to the mix will highly unbalance the driving performance.


KYB claims they valve "replacement" aftermarket shocks to compensate for suspension wear, presumably meaning bushings. Agree they stiffen the ride overall if the bushings aren't completely shot ( or if you do the right thing and replace bushings with new OEM or equivalent ). But I think Showa is an OEM supplier for some Honda/Acura models.

[edit] Speaking of bushings, for a higher-mileage vehicle, sway bar bushings are probably the first thing to think about, along with shocks, but they aren't the only bushings to think about.

KYB should not be thinking that anyone installing their shocks will have bad components to compensate for worn suspension.. Nobody should be running *Key word SHOULD* old suspension bushings that is not up to KYB to decide but anyways.... At least we know that if everything else is alright KYB will stiffen the suspension ride.

Ohh and at least the OEM shocks in the 2G MDX are KYB here are my replaced OEM Shocks:
 
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I do not think conventional SH-AWD do anything like Performance engine braking as is; (Torque Vectoring the Inside Wheel with engine brake to get you into a corner while off the gas). Perhaps the issue is that the MDX was tuned relying so much on SH-AWD Torque Vector to turn that the off power performance was severely hindered or simply a second thought, I think this is the problem because SH-AWD Torque Vectoring does not work outside the power band you must be at least half the throttle to Torque Vector but SH-AWD does not seem to offer Torque Vector braking at least not in the 2G MDX.

Perhaps the New Sport Hybrid was supposedly to do that (Performance Torque Vector braking) but the Review I saw says that Regenerative Braking is quite weak on the new Sport Hybrid so I do not think they enhanced that feature that well, Ill need to test drive one to its full potential :D
There is relatively detailed discussion of sport-hybrid SH-AWD in Acura's press release. And lots of glitzy graphics on their sales site. I seem to remember a white paper somewhere; I'll see if I can dig it up. Of course, all of this is well and good in theory, but the question is how it works in the real world.

Interestingly, they also resurrected magneto-rheological shock absorbers for sport-hybrid MDX. ( Impress your friends at parties with that term for adaptive shocks ).

Acura | Press Releases Article | Acura.com
 

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Damn adaptive shocks again????
Well it wouldn't be "Sport" Hybrid if there weren't stupid shocks with a deceptive Sport setting on it.. At the very least they can say that the Sport setting also affect the suspension ride.

I feel sad for people that buy a Sport Hybrid in plan to keep it.. Between the battery pack and the Adaptive Shocks the maintenance cost on a high mileage Hybrid will be insane.
 

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Reading through that material "Wanderlust".. I found this line:

""Unlike conventional SH-AWD though, Sport Hybrid SH-AWD can also simultaneously apply regenerative brake torque to the inside rear wheel during cornering to further enhance cornering control."" So Acura has cleared up, There is no Performance Engine Braking going on with the older SH-AWD systems.

Its funny on that note that Acura didn´t stated how much the wheels are overdriven in Sport Hybrid SH-AWD??? This makes me believe the system is not up to the standard set by the mechanical SH-AWD system. They can say there is Torque Vectoring but it can also means that the wheels are not over driven at all..

Again this sounds fishy:
"A clutch allows each motor to be decoupled from its associated wheel in certain operating situations to improve efficiency"
This means that Sport Hybrid SH-AWD can act as a pure FWD car unlike the older SH-AWD that the wheels were constantly over-driven..
 

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Reading through that material "Wanderlust".. I found this line:

""Unlike conventional SH-AWD though, Sport Hybrid SH-AWD can also simultaneously apply regenerative brake torque to the inside rear wheel during cornering to further enhance cornering control."" So Acura has cleared up, There is no Performance Engine Braking going on with the older SH-AWD systems.

Its funny on that note that Acura didn´t stated how much the wheels are overdriven in Sport Hybrid SH-AWD??? This makes me believe the system is not up to the standard set by the mechanical SH-AWD system. They can say there is Torque Vectoring but it can also means that the wheels are not over driven at all..

Again this sounds fishy:
"A clutch allows each motor to be decoupled from its associated wheel in certain operating situations to improve efficiency"
This means that Sport Hybrid SH-AWD can act as a pure FWD car unlike the older SH-AWD that the wheels were constantly over-driven..
Since there is no mechanical coupling to the front drivetrain, the concept of overdrive ratio doesn't have any meaning in sport hybrid SH-AWD. Either rear wheel can be electrically driven as fast as is required, subject to the apparent limitation that for MDX the motors are disengaged above 94mph because they max out their internal rpm limit. The issue with the various flavors of mechanical SH-AWD is that the outer driven rear wheel can "run out of speed" in sharp corners, because it is limited to a fixed ratio of speed ( over-drive ratio ) above the front wheels. I think RL even had a two-speed transmission in the rear drivetrain to address this issue. Here's a white paper on the latest generation mechanical SH-AWD used in 2016+ MDX and 2016+ Pilot. You can preview the first 5 pages without buying it. Dunno if there's another source.

Development of High Efficiency Next-Generation SH-AWD Rear Drive Unit

And here's the lowdown on handling benefits of sport hybrid SH-AWD. Might wanna brew a fresh pot of coffee before you tackle this one...

Development of Handling Performance Control for SPORT HYBRID SH-AWD
 

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Man the list prices for those papers are ridiculous... Specially since the Preview (Sport Hybrid) lets you read 4 out of 6 pages hahaha

The issue with the over-driven wheels is that it doesn´t matter if its a mechanical or a direct drive system what we want to know is how much any of the rear wheels will be overdriven compared to the front (The overdriven ratio was taken from the spinning tires) the latest iteration allowed for 5.7% IIRC and the older (2G) allowed for 1.7% so the difference between SH-AWD 1.0-2.0 vs 3.0 is Amazing, The system should kick in often and for longer periods.

I recall that the system does stop working if the speed is too high, In fact once past a certain point I can swear there isn´t any Torque Vectoring happening but I should be going pretty fast to achieve that, This means SH-AWD would still work after that speed. BUT Sport Hybrid makes no mention on the overdriven ratio.. This is important to know if the system is in fact better than the mechanical SH-AWD or just a crippled system like (iVTM4 which does Torque Vector but with no Overdrive).

In any case is not like I can in no way shape or form able to buy a New Sport Hybrid hahaha but what I will do is replace my current SH-AWD badge with the cool blue Sport Hybrid Badge..


Do Acura kept using SH-AWD and named it "Sport Hybrid" so they could use the same badge?? This is cool because I can buy the badge and if anyone asks me is that "Sport Hybrid-AWD" and I will say nahh its "Super Handling-AWD" and it will work the same.
 

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Reading through the SH-AWD 3.0 Papers..

It seems that there is in fact an Overheating Threshold in the new unit compared to the Old Unit, Since the clutch packs are in charge of 100% of the Torque Delivery they seem to be pretty dependent on Temp Fluid which means the new 3.0 can in fact lower its performance over time.. One thing that amazed me from the SH-AWD in the MDX is that no matter how hard I push it? it stays giving and giving and Torque Vector never lets go... Obviously is not like anyone will be pushing their Crossover all day hahahahaha specially since the 3G MDX suspension is so soft and less sporty.. But I was concerned about the longevity of the SH-AWD 3.0 Unit since its a Direct Drive unit too..

This also makes if the clutches in the Sport Hybrid Diff also has 100% of the Torque Load and if so how is that gonna work out?
 
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