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Discussion Starter #1

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Hell, it's from CNN -- what do you expect? Go to the Fair & Balanced news source, Fox News Channel, to find out what's REALLY going on.
 

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Technically, the report says that there is no connection between Iraq and 9/11. It does not address whether or not there was communication between them on other subjects, up until the 1990s.

Nor did "Dubya" ever say that he believed that Iraq assisted in the attacks, just that they could become a threat (which they would have, I believe, if they weren't already) and that there had been talks between them and Al Quaida.

There's nothing here to suggest dishonesty. Even if Bush had been given bad intelligence, and said there was a connection between Hussein and 9/11 (which he wasn't...and didn't), being mistaken is a long way from lying.

Besides, the commission could be wrong, too, you know. They're not perfect.
 

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frostyra said:
Go to the Fair & Balanced news source, Fox News Channel, to find out what's REALLY going on.
Watch it if you want, love it if you want, believe the venomous crap they spew if you want, but don't for a second think you're getting a fair and balanced view of anything on Fox. A token moderate on a staff of arch conservatives is not balance. In order for that to occur, you'd have to have an equal number of conservatives and liberals reporting on and debating about actual, verified, and researched facts.

The liberal media is a lie. Repeat it enough times, people believe it. Especially those that want to.

Mrs. BigDog
 

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BigDog said:


Watch it if you want, love it if you want, believe the venomous crap they spew if you want, but don't for a second think you're getting a fair and balanced view of anything on Fox. A token moderate on a staff of arch conservatives is not balance. In order for that to occur, you'd have to have an equal number of conservatives and liberals reporting on and debating about actual, verified, and researched facts....
Yeah, but it wouldn't be as entertaining. (Ann Coulter is hillarious) Remember, its all about ratings. Who cares about anything else?
 

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xfactor said:


Yeah, but it wouldn't be as entertaining. (Ann Coulter is hillarious) Remember, its all about ratings. Who cares about anything else?
Well, see, YOU have the right attitude! I suspect, however, that you have a somewhat higher intellectual capacity than the target audience.:D

What is wrong with that woman BTW?

Mrs. BigDog
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, Dubya would like us to think he knows stuff we don't. But if there was any real evidence, they would have made it public by now, and if not that, they would have at least presented it, privately, to the 9/11 guys so that they would alter their report. I heard a member of the 9/11 commission interviewed today, and they said that on record, Dubya's administration had not disputed any of the facts of their report in this area (although they have disputed literally hundreds of other details).

He may believe what he's saying, but that doesn't make it not a lie.
 

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neide said:
I realize I haven't posted in a while on this subject, but this one is too hard to pass by. Despite the absolute lack of any evidence and a bi-parisan commission statement, Dubya hold's on to his lies.


Bush insists Iraq, al Qaeda had 'relationship'
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/17/Bush.alqaeda/index.html
Ahh... The media playing politics with American lives again... I know this would come up so here goes....

Here is the 'lack of evidence'...

* Abdul Rahman Yasin, a member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb, fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam's hometown, that show that Iraq gave Yasin both a home and a salary.

* Bin Laden met eight times with officers of Iraq's Special Security Organization, a secret police agency run by Saddam's son Qusay, and with Saddam's external intelligence service, according to intelligence made public by Secretary of State Colin Powell, at the United Nations Security Council on Feb. 6, 2003.

* Bin Laden met the director of the Iraqi mukhabarat in 1996 in Khartoum, according to Powell.

* An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid '90s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with Saddam's men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator.

* In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested by Pakistani authorities. Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, al Qaeda's No. 2.

* Spanish investigators have uncovered documents seized from Yusuf Galan — who is charged by a Spanish court with being "directly involved with the preparation and planning" of the Sept. 11 attacks — that show the terrorist was invited to a party at the Iraqi embassy in Madrid. The invitation used his "al Qaeda nom de guerre."

* An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as "Abu Mohammed," told the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin Laden's fighters in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in Saddam's Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad, where militants trained to hijack planes with knives — on a full-size Boeing 707.

* In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to Saddam's son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.

* The Sunday Times found a Saddam loyalist in a Kurdish prison who claims to have been Dr. Zawahiri's bodyguard during his 1992 visit with Saddam in Baghdad. Dr. Zawahiri was a close associate of bin Laden at the time.

* Following the defeat of the Taliban, almost two dozen bin Laden associates "converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there," Powell told the United Nations in February 2003. From their Baghdad base, the secretary said, they supervised the movement of men, materiel and money for al Qaeda's global network.

* Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi oversaw an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. Wounded, he sought medical treatment in Baghdad in May 2002. When he recovered, he restarted a training camp in northern Iraq. Zarqawi's Iraq cell was later tied to the October 2002 murder of Lawrence Foley, a U.S. Agency for International Development official. The captured assassin confessed that he received orders and funds from Zarqawi's cell in Iraq.

* Documents found among the debris of the Iraqi Intelligence Center show that Baghdad funded the Allied Democratic Forces, a Ugandan terror group led by an Islamist cleric linked to bin Laden. According to a London's Daily Telegraph, the organization offered to recruit "youth to train for the jihad" at a "headquarters for international holy warrior network" in Baghdad.

* CIA Director George Tenet told the Senate Intelligence Committee: "Iraq has in the past provided training in document-forgery and bomb-making to al Qaeda. It also provided training in poisons and gasses to two al Qaeda associates; one of these [al Qaeda] associates characterized the relationship as successful. . . . This information is based on a solid foundation of intelligence. It comes to us from credible and reliable sources. Much of it is corroborated by multiple sources."
 

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BigDog said:


Watch it if you want, love it if you want, believe the venomous crap they spew if you want, but don't for a second think you're getting a fair and balanced view of anything on Fox. A token moderate on a staff of arch conservatives is not balance. In order for that to occur, you'd have to have an equal number of conservatives and liberals reporting on and debating about actual, verified, and researched facts.

The liberal media is a lie. Repeat it enough times, people believe it. Especially those that want to.

Mrs. BigDog
Yeah, NY and LA Times are conservative and/or fair minded. And I am Santa Clause!!
 

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Go get 'em HHWC. This is an election year and it is absolutely imperitive that the left destroy any and all rationale for the war in Iraq. No way Kerry wins if the general public continues to believe the war in Iraq was carried out for substantive reasons (and, yes, I am familiar with the current polls. That is the point of this post, so read on). Ergo, repeat the same tired mantra questioning the real reason for invasion of Iraq. This is an old game that both sides have played for many hundreds of years. The big difference between the right and left, especially today, is that the overwhelming number of inidividuals bringing us both television and print media, with the only exception being FOXNEWS, are unquestionably biased to the liberal point of view.

Now before you get your left-wing hackles up, just keep in mind that, in reality, few believe that any sort of grand conspiracy exists between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media, so don't give me the same tired retort about wacko conspiracy theorists. In fact, there's no need for such blatant conspiracy. The relationship between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media is implicit in their shared beliefs and goals regarding government in the U.S. They don't need to share notes, because they already share viewpoints and goals.

The beauty of the U.S. media is that they don't have prove anything, they just have to keep repeating the same mantra over and over again so that at first people begin to doubt, then believe, then change their views. My hat's off to the media. If the media were to instead lean to the right, I'd be more than happy to deny that fact and sit back while they quietly worked towards the same goals as conservative politicians.
:D
PS And one more thing. For those of you opposed to labels like right-wing and left-wing, save your breath. More often than not labels are helpful and serve to frame issues and positions. Those who are afraid of labels have 1) missed the point in the first place, or 2) something in their own stance that they are uncomfortable with. If you can't live with right-wing or left-wing, then call yourself middle-wing damnit!
:rolleyes:
 

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No plagirism intended..just word-smithing

This is an election year and it is absolutely imperitive (imperative) that the right destroy any and all facts that might expose any political rationale for the war in Iraq. Luckily, more information is coming out pointing to some alliance between Iraq and Al Queda...that should help quell the fires some. Kerry wins if the general public believes the war in Iraq was carried out for less than honest reasons (and, yes, I am familiar with the current polls, the public is getting smarter every day). That is the point of this post, so read on). Ergo, repeat the same tired mantra questioning the real reason for invasion of Iraq. This is an old game that both sides have played for many hundreds of years. The big difference between the right and left, especially today, is that the overwhelming number of inidividuals bringing us both television and print media, are unquestionably biased to the liberal point of view vs. FOXNEWS which is biased to what the right wants to hear. At least we have one on our side.

Now before you get your right & left wing hackles up, just keep in mind that, in reality, few believe that any sort of grand conspiracy exists between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media, so don't give me the same tired retort about wacko conspiracy theorists. In fact, there's no need for such blatant conspiracy. The relationship between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media is implicit in their shared beliefs and goals regarding government in the U.S. They don't need to share notes, because they already share viewpoints and goals. Just as the right-wing press, and media has strong financial support to spew their propaganda.

The beauty of the U.S. media is that they don't have prove anything, they just have to keep repeating the same mantra over and over again so that at first people begin to doubt, then believe, then change their views. My hat's off to the media. If the media were to instead lean to the right, I'd be more than happy to deny that fact and sit back while they quietly worked towards the same goals as conservative politicians. But that would not BE RIGHT!! THEY SHOULD BE OBJECTIVE, AND NOT LEANING AT ALL!!!
:D
 

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Keremoner, I don't read those papers, so I have no idea if they are "fair and balanced", or have a liberal or conservative bent. The reason I don't read those papers is because I don't live in LA or NY. Although many people across the country probably DO read those papers even though they don't live there, that's a bit different than a nation-wide network news channel. Especially one that professes to be fair and balanced and so clearly isn't. Do those papers have "fair and balanced" blazoned across the top of the front page?

Just because there are SOME newspapers, magazines, and radio talk show hosts with a liberal viewpoint, does that mean they CONTROL the media? In order for there not to be a liberal bias in your mind would there have to be NO newspapers, etc with a liberal slant. That would be about as fair and balanced as Fox News.

In fact, keeping newspapers and magazines out of the picture, how many talk radio stations do you know of that are all liberal all the time? I'm not talking individual hosts, but a station where ALL the hosts are liberals. Do you know of any? There are certainly stations that are all convervative. We have one here in the Bay Area. It's KSFO, Hot Talk Radio, which presumably means venomous right-wing propaganda. It came under new management years ago, and they fired everyone who wasn't a white male conservative. Yep, got rid of those pesky women, minorities and liberals. Now they're fair & balanced!

At least people like Rush Limbaugh don't lie about who they are. He just lies about other stuff. :rolleyes:

In case you haven't noticed, the media is controlled by big business, major corporations like Clear Channel. Is anyone more conservative than big business?

Mrs. BigDog
 

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Re: No plagirism intended..just word-smithing

DaleB said:
This is an election year and it is absolutely imperitive (imperative) that the right destroy any and all facts that might expose any political rationale for the war in Iraq. Luckily, more information is coming out pointing to some alliance between Iraq and Al Queda...that should help quell the fires some. Kerry wins if the general public believes the war in Iraq was carried out for less than honest reasons (and, yes, I am familiar with the current polls, the public is getting smarter every day). That is the point of this post, so read on). Ergo, repeat the same tired mantra questioning the real reason for invasion of Iraq. This is an old game that both sides have played for many hundreds of years. The big difference between the right and left, especially today, is that the overwhelming number of inidividuals bringing us both television and print media, are unquestionably biased to the liberal point of view vs. FOXNEWS which is biased to what the right wants to hear. At least we have one on our side.

Now before you get your right & left wing hackles up, just keep in mind that, in reality, few believe that any sort of grand conspiracy exists between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media, so don't give me the same tired retort about wacko conspiracy theorists. In fact, there's no need for such blatant conspiracy. The relationship between left-wing politicians and left-wing news media is implicit in their shared beliefs and goals regarding government in the U.S. They don't need to share notes, because they already share viewpoints and goals. Just as the right-wing press, and media has strong financial support to spew their propaganda.

The beauty of the U.S. media is that they don't have prove anything, they just have to keep repeating the same mantra over and over again so that at first people begin to doubt, then believe, then change their views. My hat's off to the media. If the media were to instead lean to the right, I'd be more than happy to deny that fact and sit back while they quietly worked towards the same goals as conservative politicians. But that would not BE RIGHT!! THEY SHOULD BE OBJECTIVE, AND NOT LEANING AT ALL!!!
:D
My hat's off to you DaleB! That was quick and good! :cool: :6: Also, as you can see, I'm not big on spell checker. :moon:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well, the public USED to believe in the faulty raitionale for the war. But follow any recent polls? I believe the last one had about a ten point lead for the "war was unjustified" opinion.

The truth is coming out, no matter how hard you zealots try to bury it.
 

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Re: Re: Re: No plagirism intended..just word-smithing

DaleB said:


Was just having fun.. ....one word was not spelled right...jeez...
I am a dyslexic typist.. don't feel bad...
:rolleyes:
Was only kidding you too. Geez back at ya.
 

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neide said:
Well, the public USED to believe in the faulty raitionale for the war. But follow any recent polls? I believe the last one had about a ten point lead for the "war was unjustified" opinion.

The truth is coming out, no matter how hard you zealots try to bury it.
:readit:
Remember...the truth is out there... (Special Agent Molder)

And it apparently takes CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, LA Times, NY Times, Newsweek, US News and NPR to find it. :bsflag:
 

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neide said:
Well, the public USED to believe in the faulty raitionale for the war. But follow any recent polls? I believe the last one had about a ten point lead for the "war was unjustified" opinion.

The truth is coming out, no matter how hard you zealots try to bury it.
The truth is coming out....

ASTANA, Kazakhstan (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, in comments sure to help President Bush, declared Friday that Russia knew Iraq's Saddam Hussein had planned terror attacks on U.S. soil and had warned Washington.
------------------------------

I guess now you're going to tell me that Putin is a Republican?
 

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BigDog said:
.... It came under new management years ago, and they fired everyone who wasn't a white male conservative. Yep, got rid of those pesky women, minorities and liberals. Now they're fair & balanced!

At least people like Rush Limbaugh don't lie about who they are...
:17:
 
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