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Discussion Starter #1
neide, ocean, bostonx, and some others out there who were so 'shocked' at the 'torture' of Iraqi prisoners, are you shocked now as well? The liberal media does not seem to be. This has been my point all along. There is absolutely no proportionality here. As bad as the actions of those few soldiers were, it is nothing compared to how these animals have been for decades now. The lack of extereme outrage on the part of Kennedys and Kerrys of this world is what makes conservatives question liberals' motives.
 

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keremoner said:
neide, ocean, bostonx, and some others out there who were so 'shocked' at the 'torture' of Iraqi prisoners, are you shocked now as well? The liberal media does not seem to be. This has been my point all along. There is absolutely no proportionality here. As bad as the actions of those few soldiers were, it is nothing compared to how these animals have been for decades now. The lack of extereme outrage on the part of Kennedys and Kerrys of this world is what makes conservatives question liberals' motives.
No surprise. Who's politicizing the war now?

I've bit my tongue to see just how far some people will use this issue to try to defeat the US once again (just like Vietnam). I may even venture to say that the constant 24/7 drumbeat on this issue may have cost the American contractor his life as well as giving the killers an 'excuse' (not that they need one).

Where was the outrage when the Americans were burnt and hung from a bridge? No congressional hearings on what to do about it...

Some Iraqis ARE HAPPY that we are there....
 

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This whole issue is making me sick. I just saw it on cnbc and my heart just sank and my stomach turned. From pictures of iraqi prisoners being tormented by US Soldiers and their dogs to a beheading of a US Civilian in retaliation of the Iraqi POW treatment, I have a heard time understanding the human race sometimes.

God bless everyone who is and is not involved in this.
 

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Just wonder out loud who is stupid enough to leak those pictures to the world. We can deal it internally until the last resort exhausted. As far as I know Pres. Bush was not briefed about these pictures until he saw it on network. America's democracy and freedoom seems in demoralized state now. Now, let's pray that we won't be drawn to the tit for tat game. It only escalates the problem. Somehow we must deal with graciousness, forgiveness, endurance and strong determination.
 

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Originally posted by Oh_My_Baby . . .
Somehow we must deal with graciousness, forgiveness, endurance and strong determination. [/B]
C'mon, we're long passed that stage. In my experience, America is the only country I'm familiar with that goes in, kicks butt, then comes in afterwards and rebuilds the foreign country they just conquered. America sends more relief overseas than anyone else, America shows more compassion to the underdeveloped countries with relief aid than anyone else. How's that for graciousness, forgiveness, endurance and strong determination?
These people attacked us on our soil, with the use of innocent people on non-military aircraft, into non-military targets, killing non-military people. You want graciousness, forgiveness, endurance and strong determination? Go to a convent.
This is war, and we're going to handle it as such, despite all the liberal bleeding hearts tear jerkin', so get on board. :soapbox:
 

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Perhaps we should just suspend the Geneva convention for all sides and be done with it!


keremoner said:
neide, ocean, bostonx, and some others out there who were so 'shocked' at the 'torture' of Iraqi prisoners, are you shocked now as well? The liberal media does not seem to be. This has been my point all along. There is absolutely no proportionality here. As bad as the actions of those few soldiers were, it is nothing compared to how these animals have been for decades now. The lack of extereme outrage on the part of Kennedys and Kerrys of this world is what makes conservatives question liberals' motives.
 

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To win war, you have to win minds and hearts.
We can blow the whole country up only to have other Arab countries united against USA. Trade one enemy only to get a bigger enemy. It's not a good strategy. Be calm and cool.
However, we should not back down at any cost. I wholetedly support Pres. Bush's firm stand against terrrorism. However, read on the following interview of Former Singapore Minister, the great thinker Lee Sien Yew here
 

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I thought the difference between US and THEM was that they do this stuff and we don't. Now I have a hard time telling who is who.

It's all very revolting.
 

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keremoner said:
neide, ocean, bostonx, and some others out there who were so 'shocked' at the 'torture' of Iraqi prisoners, are you shocked now as well? The liberal media does not seem to be. This has been my point all along. There is absolutely no proportionality here. As bad as the actions of those few soldiers were, it is nothing compared to how these animals have been for decades now. The lack of extereme outrage on the part of Kennedys and Kerrys of this world is what makes conservatives question liberals' motives.
How pathetically shameless. Exploiting this man's tragic misfortune so you can (once again) climb on your tired soapbox. Who are you to question my compassion towards another person, whether they be American or Arab? It's reactionary, short-sighted people like you that give conservatism a bad name and make many people happy to side with the "Kennedys and Kerrys" of this country, if just to distance themselves from ignorant people of your ilk.

Just for the record; I never once posted about my "outrage" over the images of tortured Iraqi prisoners. Get your facts straight, all of them.
 

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Blackura said:
I thought the difference between US and THEM was that they do this stuff and we don't. Now I have a hard time telling who is who.

It's all very revolting.
If you have a hard telling the difference between a pic of a naked man and one getting his head cut off then you need help.

Telling the difference is not hard at all for most of the world.
 

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Berg went to my high school and lived in my hometown of West Chester, PA. Seems like he was a heck of a guy, I'll have to catch up with friends who taught at Henderson High to hear more. An awful fate for anyone to suffer, but there's a different perspective when this one literally hits close to home.

What a mess.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Re: Beheading of US contractor in Iraq

BostonX said:


How pathetically shameless. Exploiting this man's tragic misfortune so you can (once again) climb on your tired soapbox. Who are you to question my compassion towards another person, whether they be American or Arab? It's reactionary, short-sighted people like you that give conservatism a bad name and make many people happy to side with the "Kennedys and Kerrys" of this country, if just to distance themselves from ignorant people of your ilk.

Just for the record; I never once posted about my "outrage" over the images of tortured Iraqi prisoners. Get your facts straight, all of them.
I am not questioning your compassion but liberal compassion is nothing but hot air. If it was for likes of Chamberlain, Hitler would be the supreme ruler of europe and beyond. Good intentions don't do crap, decisive and principle based actions (which kinds of Kennedy and Kerry are complete strangers to) do. This is not in regards to foreign policy only, it is the same with domestic policy issues such as welfare, civil rights, and education as well.
 

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I don't find any of this shocking. The treatment we have received is deplorable and depressing. The treatment we have given is also deplorable and will have a very negative effect on the progress in Iraq.
But shocking? Given a 'war' and one in the Middle East? Not in the least bit shocking. It only is more deplorable because it is american lives.
 

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The last few weeks reminded us of the difference between the criminals of the civilized & uncivilized societies, Aman.

God bless USA!
 

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Of course its deplorable. What's your point? Is it worse then what we did? From what I've seen so far, clearly it is. So what's your point? That "they" are doing worse things than "us"? They are. I don't see how this justifies the war or the criminal acts of our own soldiers.
 

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Well, the enemy knows we value life. Thus, in their opinion, the more life they try to end and the more heinous the better effect to us. It's getting escalated for the worse. Sooner, they may try to pick the heart or the brain out while the victim is still alive. Who knows.
 

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neide said:
Of course its deplorable. What's your point? Is it worse then what we did? From what I've seen so far, clearly it is. So what's your point? That "they" are doing worse things than "us"? They are. I don't see how this justifies the war or the criminal acts of our own soldiers.
I don't think he was implying that it justifies what some renegade soldier have done. I just think he was stating that there are different levels of "abuse". Obviously taking making a prisoner strip should not have taken place, but beheading a civilian to prove your point goes beyond abuse.
 

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MDteX said:


I don't think he was implying that it justifies what some renegade soldier have done. I just think he was stating that there are different levels of "abuse". Obviously taking making a prisoner strip should not have taken place, but beheading a civilian to prove your point goes beyond abuse.
Okay, we all agree that it was worse. But I (And others) were specifically called out in the beginning of this thread and I'm still trying to understand the point? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
neide said:


Okay, we all agree that it was worse. But I (And others) were specifically called out in the beginning of this thread and I'm still trying to understand the point? :confused:
Ok, here is my point. People on the other side of the political aisle, as well as Arabs, europeans, and most others around the world, are quick to condemn our soldiers but they have been rather subdued regarding the outrageousness of what the enemy is doing or things like Hamas bombings in Israel. The inference I draw here is that we (and Israel) are the ones to blame. You may deny the existence of anti-semitism and anti-americanism around the world but to me it is a reality. Here, in the USA, there are many books coming out accusing the administration with all sorts of things including making up stories to justify this war. The CIA intelligence however, was clear as to Saddam harboring this Zarquawi (sp?) character before all this started. Whether Saddam personally was involved with 9/11 or not, he always supported terrorism financially. The liberals, here and abroad, as usual shied away from direct conflict with terrorists and their backers. I agree that Iraq isn't the only country supporting terrorists. So are Iran and Syria and we need to deal forcefully with them also. So, in totality of the picture, the goal of those voices against this administration is to undermine it and its chances of re-election, even if that means undermining the war against terror. Few dems who are principled enough have not exploited the situation, like Sen. Lieberman have been in full support and shied away from making this very serious issue a political football.
Finally, as a muslim, this all offends me to no end that some radical MFs are using god's name to kill people. I am ready to nuke the whole f***ing place for giving a black eye to Islam. The only way to stop this viper is to cut its head off wherever it is found, like Israel does. It is a shame that Palestinians are 'homeless' but if they did not support Hamas and the like and negotiated in good faith, US would be able to put more pressure on Israel to reach an agreement with the Palestinians. Since it is their stated goal to erase Israel from the face of the earth, we are left with no choice but to back Israel. Hence the root of the problem (why we are hated so much in so many places). I see us as being between a rock and a hard place. We have no choice but to fight, and fight forcefully because if these people can cut a head off so easily, do you think that they'll hesitate to explode a nuclear or chemical device if and when they get their hands on them? I have absolutely no doubts at all!!! So, liberals in the US should stop undermining this effort and head off this grave danger before it is too late. Once these people get their hands on WMDs, it will be too late. I am not telling you to support GWB for re-election, but don't fall in to the same trap we did in Vietnam. The stakes are much higher this time.
 
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