[jack7742]

Sitting here with deposit on '03 listening to problems (blown engine, etc.), and my Lincoln dealer calls with invitation for pre-release viewing of the 2003 Lincoln Aviator on July 10.
300HP DOHC V-8, AWD, 5 sp Auto, real wood, all three seats leather, side curtain air bags, HIDs. Sounds interesting, and I'm going to have a look see. Our V-8 LS has been a super drive, and this new SUV might be as well. Especially if Acura continues to treat customers as an everyday commodity.

 

[rvehock]

Sitting here with deposit on '03 listening to problems (blown engine, etc.), and my Lincoln dealer calls with invitation for pre-release viewing of the 2003 Lincoln Aviator on July 10.
300HP DOHC V-8, AWD, 5 sp Auto, real wood, all three seats leather, side curtain air bags, HIDs. Sounds interesting, and I'm going to have a look see. Our V-8 LS has been a super drive, and this new SUV might be as well. Especially if Acura continues to treat customers as an everyday commodity.

What blown engine?? As for dealers, I have had nothing but great service and sales from my Acura dealer, you don't need an excuse to look at the Lincoln, "just do it" :2:

 

[renov8r]

Acura vs 'anything else'

I have been reading the problem with the bad engine too. I would not consider a timing belt problem (albeit one that lead to valve/piston interference) anything other than a freak occurance. Doesn't cause me concern- OTHER THAN the HOPE that Acura would do a better job of treating customers with more of a "we want to see you happy" attitude.

The Aviator is gonna be the most pimped out Exploder the planet has seen. Ford has some OK product, but the trade-off you make when going with the Ford V8 and Explorer based AWD are pretty steep compared to MDX. Lousy mileage, higher maintence, no improvement in drivablity, slightly greater towing capacity.

Wood trim is pretty meaningless to me, I would like HIDs, bet MDX has side curtain bags in 03...

The superior engineering and real world performance of MDX still set the bar for me...

 

[DaleB]

Sitting here with deposit on '03 listening to problems (blown engine, etc.), and my Lincoln dealer calls with invitation for pre-release viewing of the 2003 Lincoln Aviator on July 10.
300HP DOHC V-8, AWD, 5 sp Auto, real wood, all three seats leather, side curtain air bags, HIDs. Sounds interesting, and I'm going to have a look see. Our V-8 LS has been a super drive, and this new SUV might be as well. Especially if Acura continues to treat customers as an everyday commodity.

Blown engines are just like news. IF all that was reported was the good stuff everybody would lose interest.
Every manufcaturer including Ford-Lincoln-Mercury has had serious problems at one time or another. (You have to know that!)
Put it in perspective, and then look at the overall statistics and you will find Acura way above average in delivering trouble-free vehicles.
We are not going to have a forum with people saying, " Oh I got great service from my dealer today!!"
or.."Oh, my engine didn't blow up today!"
Well, I guess not!! Go to alldata.com and look up trouble reports and recalls for all makes of automobiles, then you will have something to talk about and something to support it. Over 60,000 MDX sold (?) and a handful of people on here since the start of the forum have mentioned major engine or tranny problems. The same goes for bad dealers, we talk mostly about the bad ones and the exceptionally good ones.
If you don't do the research, you deserve what ever you get.

 

[juvee]

I saw the Lincoln at the Atlanta auto show. Nice vehicle but still did not look as nice as Acura I thought and better engine next year with the X should help even more. All the postings I saw on bad dealers actually did scare me and must admit my hometown dealer did not seem that great. But the dealer I purchased at in Nashville was superb and has provided me with excellent service. You have to really consider resale value also which will be outstanding with Acura.

 

[jack7742]

Message Received

Thanks. Over and Out.

 

[DFDesigns]

I personally can't wait to see one of these in the flesh. Lots of neat goodies in these that I know I'd enjoy:

302 HP + 300 ft. lbs. torque
A/C'd seats
2nd row buckets (2+2+2) available
Sunroof + navi +rear DVD + aux A/C all available together
HIDs
Telematics
more color choices (including a 3 stage pearl white) that are all available with both interior colors! (with the exception of one)
Pricing should be competitive
Free scheduled maintenance for 3/36 with 4/50 warranty

I'll continue to be conflicted....

 

[MrPrescott]

Aviator = overpriced Ford Explorer?

 

[DFDesigns]

Some similarities (like size), but I don't really think so. When you see the pictures (especially the interior shots), it looks very little like an Explorer. It shares more content features with the Navigator.

You could say some of the same things about the MDX, too, like:

MDX = overpriced Pilot?
MDX = shares a platform with a minivan?

I am not trying to make waves here, just pointing out parallels. We'll have to wait until the end of the month to start seeing Aviators showing up on dealer lots, but I'll be willing to bet that no one mistakes them for Explorers...

 

[donsev]

Some similarities (like size), but I don't really think so. When you see the pictures (especially the interior shots), it looks very little like an Explorer. It shares more content features with the Navigator.

You could say some of the same things about the MDX, too, like:

MDX = overpriced Pilot?
MDX = shares a platform with a minivan?

...but I'll be willing to bet that no one mistakes them for Explorers...

FYI,

Lincoln Navigator = Ford Expedition
Lincoln Aviator = Ford Explorer = Mercury Mountaineer

From every angle but the front, the Aviator is almost indistinguishable from the Explorer and Mountaineer. Aside from trim and mouldings, only the front fascia (bumper cover, grill, and matching hood cut line) are moderately changed from the Explorer. This is no surprise, the Mountaineer is a slightly re-skinned Explorer and thus, so is the Aviator. While the interior follows many of the treatments introduced on the re-designed Navigator, MOST people would be hard pressed to tell the difference b/w the Explorer and Aviator from the outside.

While the Pilot and the MDX DO share many components (not a bad thing!) NO ONE would confuse the Pilot with the MDX (a large CRV perhaps , but not the MDX)

 

[DFDesigns]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I seriously think that the Aviator looks as much like an Explorer (which I like, incidentally) as the MDX resembles the Pilot.

I am fairly well schooled in the Expedition-Navigator relationship. Due to my long term participation in a group like this, I was able to be involved in discussions to suggest some of the new features and technology for the 2003 Ex. (Some I like, some I don't.) The Exp & Nav definitely shared a great many parts (both interior and exterior) from 97-02. In 2003, they are moving further away from one another in brand differentiation. Ford also appears to be moving the Explorer, Mountaineer and Aviator apart in a similiar fashion.

Platform and parts bin sharing definitely isn't a bad thing; it can save money, time and resources. Honda does it all the time - that sunroof switch in your MDX is the exact same one in the Civic. They share engines, platforms, drivetrains, interiors, etc... all the time, and that's super.

Here's what I don't understand: why is it okay for Honda to do it, but for any other manufacturer it's just "overpriced" or inferior? It doesn't seem to matter who the manufacturer is (Ford, Benz, Lexus, etc...) they all get slammed pretty solidly here. Doesn't getting charged MSRP + thousands extra in ridiculous mandatory options count as "overpriced"? (And yes, I do realize that most dealers have finally cleaned up their acts in this department, but this kind of pricing went on for a good long time.)

I love cars. I will talk cars with just about anyone and I enjoy learning all the little quirks that go along with different models. I also do realize that if you can't toot your own horn on your own list, where else can you do it? I just wish that things weren't quite so heavily biased towards anything that doesn't have Honda under the hood...

Okay. I'm done. I am ready to leave this list in case of overwhelming flames, but before I go I do want wish you all many years of happiness with your MDXes...

 

[donsev]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I seriously think that the Aviator looks as much like an Explorer (which I like, incidentally) as the MDX resembles the Pilot.... Ford also appears to be moving the Explorer, Mountaineer and Aviator apart in a similiar fashion.

Yes, on that we will have to disagree. We know for certain that the Pilot does not share a single body panel with the MDX. And that the unit-body changes to the Pilot, most obviously the A, B, C and D pillars, necessitates it's government/IIHS testing as a completely different vehicle. The Explorer/Mountaineer/(And based on the available evidence)Aviator are so similiar that they are allowed to be tested as one vehicle:

From the IIHS web site
FORD EXPLORER
MERCURY MOUNTAINEER
2002 models (mfg. after 10/01)
These models are identical except for minor styling and trim differences. Therefore, the crashworthiness ratings apply to each model listed.

Now, Ford may *request* the Aviator to be tested/re-tested, much as they did when the original 2002 Explorer crash-test results came back so poorly. And it might even be required b/c of the changes to the engine bay to accept the modified engine - we will have to wait and see. But that doesn't hide the fact that the three vehicles are essentially the same with different trim levels.

From an exterior design standpoint, simply compare the profile outlines of the Explorer/Mountaineer/Aviator - aside from the front fascia, they will all match exactly. (BTW, the same can NOT be said for a similiar comparison of the Pilot/MDX)

Platform and parts bin sharing definitely isn't a bad thing; ...
Here's what I don't understand: why is it okay for Honda to do it, but for any other manufacturer it's just "overpriced" or inferior?

Please don't take offense, but I think that you are completely missing the point on the posts in this thread. Most people will agree with you that there is nothing wrong with platform sharing, as long as the "borrowed" platform is worth borrowing! Yes, the Pilot is based on the MDX platform, which is VERY highly regarded by the automotive press. And yes, the MDX is very loosely based on the Odyssey platform, which again is VERY highly regarded. The negative responses to the Aviator are NOT based on the fact that this is a derivitive model, but that it is derived from the Explorer - from which the highest praise that automotive reviewers can muster seems to be "well, she's better than the old model".

What the replies on this thread seem to be saying is "don't expect some chrome wheels and some glued on plastic moulding to turn a 'sow's ear into a silk purse' "

Okay. I'm done. I am ready to leave this list in case of overwhelming flames, but before I go I do want wish you all many years of happiness with your MDXes...

Please don't let a little automotive ethnocentricity deter you from continuing this discussion. We look forward to your evaluation of the Aviator, and you giving us another chance to dissuade you from the dark side

 

[MrPrescott]

Donsev - I couldn't have said it better myself. In my opinion, the Ford Explorer platform is not worth borrowing in today's competitive, car-based SUV market.

 

[BaldEagle]

I did a test drive on a Lincoln Navigator 3 months ago and was not very impressed. The way it handled, ride, brakes, and steering reminded me of my 10 year old GMC 4WD P/U.

Took a test drive on the MDX the last few days of April and .......

 

[wmquan]

... the Ford Explorer platform is not worth borrowing in today's competitive, car-based SUV market.

I think car-based SUV's are great. But there is still room for true truck-based SUV's. E.g. for folks who do heavy towing (say, 6,000 lbs). Given the Explorer's questionable safety history, it pains me to say that if I had to buy something to fulfill that need today, it's the only IIHS "Best Pick" that'll do the job, for under $40k. (As Don pointed out, the new Explorer did not do well initially in the IIHS test, Ford had to make some design changes after the fact.)

Obviously a lot of folks don't really need a truck-based SUV, but I think a minority still do.

The upcoming, redesigned Toyota 4Runner should address that, however.

 

[BostonX]

The new Aviator looks pretty cool. If you get a white one, when it breaks down you can stand it on it's end and use it as a refrigerator.:22:

 

[rroof]

? Blown Engine

First I have heard of this! I am certainly not worried though, although my other car has had a bit more troubles with this (E46 BMW M3). Last thing I need is 2 blown engines

 

[renov8r]

Ford family leadership & credibility...

I think car-based SUV's are great. Me Too! But there is still room for true truck-based SUV's. E.g. for folks who do heavy towing (say, 6,000 lbs)... Obviously a lot of folks don't really need a truck-based SUV, but I think a minority still do.

Unfortunately, THE MAJORITY of SUV's sold & on the road are truck based ones. Not only do "most folks" not need 'em, I also think their presence upsets the safety concerned & environmentalists.

In fact, I think it is mighty two-faced of Mr. Ford to say he is "embarassed" by the wasteful SUVs and then bring out YET ANOTHER inefficent V8 powered, too heavy, truck based SUV...

I'm not much of tree hugger, and neither are my neighbors, but two familys have sprung for Honda hybrids -- one family got an Impact the other a hybrid Civic. I thing Ford ought to have given priority to a hybrid Escape or Focus BEFORE green lighting the Aviator. The Aviator extends the Mercury Mountaineer, which is been marketed poorly. It "takes on" the GMC Envoy and attempts to preempt Caddy's planned mid-sized SUV/crossover vehicle. Pretty cynical marketing....

Now Honda ain't blameless in marketing second vehicles -- consider the Passport & SLX (or even the Oasis based early Odys). None will go down as a high point in the Honda archives!

Let's hope that MDX/Pilot, CRV, and current Odys will be the 'guiding light' of Honda & Honda will invest in making them better IN ALL WAYS, including effiencey!

The Aviator moves in the wrong direction, both technologically and societally. It will not win any friends or admirers in an auto industry increasing taking the blame for excess and shoddy offerings to easily duped consumers.

Lincoln COULD have made a BOLD, HIGH REACHING vehicle, drawing on Ford's VAST INVESTMENTS in Volvo, Aston-Martin, Land Rover, Jaguar. They could have used cutting edge technology to push the limits and commanded a good price for premium tech -- instead they are pulling a "Cimmaron" -- widely regarded as the low point in automotive differention & innovation.

Lest you dismiss the Cimmaron as offering nothing (unlike the Aviator, which borrows healivy from the Navigator) consider the Cimmy had unique, engine suspension, headlights, interior, extior colors, carpet, and much much more -- http://100megsfree4.com/cadillac/cad1980/cad83c.htm

 

[MDXtrous]

MDX = overpriced Pilot?
MDX = shares a platform with a minivan?

I think the main contention is the reliability issue. I don't think it's too much to say that the Odyssey has better reliability than the Explorer (even discounting the Firestone problem), and the Pilot should fare comparably to the Odyssey in reliability.

I think lack of reliability is the first thing that comes to mind when we think Lincoln/Ford, or even GM cars.

All the added luxury features agreed should probably be in the $40,000 MDX, but until the day that when the first words that comes to mind for a Lincoln/Cadillac is, Quality/Luxury, there will be the crowd (especially the ones on this forum) that will be hesitant making that purchase. Depreciation hits hard on the checkbook...