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I didn't say Honda didn't have a great AWD system, indeed they do. I have owned Hondas since 1988. I just like the SH AWD, having had it before.
Anyone else tempted to switch to the new Pilot?
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I think it'd come down to a combo of price, specs/functions on paper, and driving experience - something that can't be concluded by just looking at the spec sheets.To me it really depends on the price difference and useable size difference. I really like the exterior of the MDX but the new Pilot is also handsome enough for me. I think some people could phrase it the other way too...."unless you really feel like paying an extra $10,000 for a little extra sporty look and a few extra doodads here and there, I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose to pay that much more for an MDX when they can get a very very similar vehicle for a better value with the Pilot"
I realize I am on the MDX board so there will be inherent biases
I haven't made any decision yet....depends on pricing and functional difference.
I don't know which one would come out on top, especially when factoring in price (ex: is the one doo dad in the MDX worth an extra $5K or something similar) but so far it seems it'd be prudent to do a test drive of both of them along with a comparison of functions features (that one cares about) and cost.
On the Honda website the new Pilot looks decent and I'm surprised they're touting its 'off-road' capabilities and that it can be had with actual steel skid plates with the right package. I've always thought of a Pilot as mostly a family hauler and grocery getter, but probably a decent one for that niche.
But if someone interested in the MDX is cross shopping the Pilot, which seems to be a sensible thing to do, then there are lots of other vehicles to cross shop as well.
Hogan - if you ever do your test drives of the MDX and 2023 Pilot I hope you'll post your impressions here.
The auto makers know about the phenomenon in this thread, and as such they hold back tons of "upgrades" from the lower brand vehicle. First in the interior finishes and sound insulation in the body. Second in the ride quality and suspension. Third in the styling (which is entirely subjective)
I've spent quite a bit of time in a newer Tiguan and a newer q5 and the q5 is head and shoulders above, not for any real reason than brand handicapping.
A huge point for me is dealer experience, luxury brands do it so much better from what I have seen. One of the reasons I would never consider a Genesis. I don't have the time to deal with the subpar service at a econ brand.
I've spent quite a bit of time in a newer Tiguan and a newer q5 and the q5 is head and shoulders above, not for any real reason than brand handicapping.
A huge point for me is dealer experience, luxury brands do it so much better from what I have seen. One of the reasons I would never consider a Genesis. I don't have the time to deal with the subpar service at a econ brand.
Yea I doubt the difference between a comparable equipped Pilot vs MDX is $5-6K less. If that's the case, there would not be much reason to buy the MDX over the Pilot. Like the two posters above me have stated, the difference is substantial or else why would people buy the MDX over the Pilot? The MDX is not just a little better but much better than the Pilot in everyway. I say this not because I hate the Pilot, I don't but if I had the money, I would choose the MDX. My main complaints about the Pilot is the noise (road, tires, cabin and suspension noises) and the ride. other than that, it's fine for what it is.
Guys, I'm glad you are all so confident that the MDX is "substantially" "better in every way" but NONE OF YOU HAVE SAT IN OR DRIVEN THE NEW PILOT that is built on the same platform as the MDX. And ceo2be, I don't get what you are saying....are you saying that the price difference between a Pilot and MDX is going to be significantly less than $5-6K? Like they will basically be similarly priced? I don't think that will be the case but we'll see. I usually think of Acuras as upgraded Hondas that cost $10K more, but maybe I will be wrong.
The funny thing about your statement above on the things you don't like about Pilot --- just scanning this forum, there are posts complaining about ROAD NOISE, TIRES, and SUSPENSION NOISES in the MDX haha.
Hey to each his own but I personally place minimal $$$ value on "dealer experience"
I try to DIY as much as I can, and paying tens of thousands more for my car so I can have "access to" a fancier dealer waiting room with a nicer coffee machine for the few times I might need service....that becomes a very expensive cup of coffee. If you're saying that luxury brands are actually honest with you in the service department and fix things properly and don't upsell and don't BS you and push you into buying their "suggested supplemental service items" etc then I could see the logic. My own experience when I owned a BMW was that their dealers were just like Honda dealers
A year ago we bought our 2022 MDX and sold our 2019 Pilot to my daughter. Last week I drove the Pilot a few miles around town. I think the Pilot seats are more supportive, and the Pilot seems to handle better. Love the MDX, but i 'missed' the Pilot just a little after the drive....
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I sometimes purchases my Acura used with the 4/50k basic warranty active (sometimes w/ CPO). It give me a little more flexibility and range on which used/CPO model year to purchase if I don't go new.
One of my biggest reasons for going with Acura is exclusivity. Don't see a lot of current or late model luxury brands like Acura, Lexus, M-B, or BMW around town compared to lower brands from Honda, Toyota, GM, pick-up trucks, or crossovers. Most folks see my 18 RLX Sport Hybrid for the first time are usually impressed with the way it looks, comment on how good it looks, and equally surprised it is a hybrid. I get some; but, no where near the same level of positive comments on my 19 MDX Sport Hybrid in SUV/truck/crossover land.
One of my biggest reasons for going with Acura is exclusivity. Don't see a lot of current or late model luxury brands like Acura, Lexus, M-B, or BMW around town compared to lower brands from Honda, Toyota, GM, pick-up trucks, or crossovers. Most folks see my 18 RLX Sport Hybrid for the first time are usually impressed with the way it looks, comment on how good it looks, and equally surprised it is a hybrid. I get some; but, no where near the same level of positive comments on my 19 MDX Sport Hybrid in SUV/truck/crossover land.
I had a 2019 Pilot and now a 2022 Passport. Sorry but no way the pilot handles better. You do sit slightly more upright which is maybe why you think the seats are more supportive, but I find the mdx seats more comfortable on longer trips.
The dealer experience means next to nothing for me - largely because I hardly ever actually go to the dealer. For my 2014 MDX I finally took it to a dealership 9 years after buying it - to have the timing belt replaced. All maintenance I've done myself in my driveway (it's easier and quicker) and it's had no actual failures.
I wouldn't pay anything more for the dealership branding. If I thought I was going to be spending a lot of time at the dealership and therefore wanted a nicer one to interact with, I'd likely skip the brand because it'd mean the vehicle was too unreliable. I realize some people have oil changes, etc. done at dealerships so maybe it means more to them to have free cookies or something at the dealership service department.
Honda is targeting certain segments with their brands and models. In my mind Acura has the reputation of 'more sporty', somewhat more 'upscale' in fittings, etc. whereas Honda is more 'practical' and 'better value' and both are about equally as reliable since they're essentially made by the same company using many of the same components. These differences alone mean an Acura will likely be a better match for me than a Honda given what I'm interested in for a vehicle, but whether there's any real substance there between two particular models like the 2023 Pilot and the 4th gen MDX would require more detailed comparisons including an actual good extensive test drive in each. This is assuming I'd be okay with the styling, sizing, materials of each.
I guess if you don't make more than $100 an hour then working on the car yourself is worth your time.
I drop the car off, either work there or grab a loaner and go about my day. Can't afford to change my own oil or change the brakes even though I have all the tools. Too much wasted time.
I drop the car off, either work there or grab a loaner and go about my day. Can't afford to change my own oil or change the brakes even though I have all the tools. Too much wasted time.
No shame in someone deciding to work on their vehicle or choosing not to work on their vehicle of course. I realize that I and others on here who like to do some maintenance on their cars are the exception rather than the rule, and for most of us I think it is some combo of 1) a hobby (survey says, top answer!) 2) cost savings 3) trust ourselves more than the grease monkey rushing to do the job on our vehicles and 4) convenience (I can do an oil change on a nice Saturday in my driveway, rather than going and sitting in the dealer showroom waiting for 90 mins and thumbing through old issues of Road and Track).
You must be a busy guy and also have a job where you make a lot of money and get paid by the hour? Curious what job that is. I always enjoy hearing that statement "I make too much per hour to do X Y Z". For most of us on a salary or salary/bonus, I get the same paycheck whether I spend 1 hour on a Saturday morning changing my oil or not. By that logic I assume you also don't watch TV, or spend time grilling brats on a Thursday evening at 6:30pm, or waste time going to see a movie on a Sunday afternoon, since all of those time-wasters are costing you dearly given that every hour you are awake and actively "working", you are racking up the Benjamins. Heck, I don't know how you can even sleep more than a few hours a night since if you woke up and started working, you would be making way more money than you are if you are resting
Now maybe the reality is your job just requires a lot of work and thus you lead a busy life and so you don't choose to spend your free time working on a car, but that doesn't really equate to the "so and so has to earn less than $X per hour in order to spend time on a given task"Well, I suppose some people may reach that conclusion from a position of ignorance and short-sightedness.
You're right on one point - I get paid wages of $0 per hour (since no longer earn a wage since I'm retired), however I've done quite well to the point where the cost isn't any practical factor to me, although I still don't mind saving a dime. I can see that if one must still work to earn a wage in order to pay their daily expenses then they may need to balance the time they allocate towards earning the wage against doing other activities, including any DIY.
Just spending a hour less time on a forum like this once every few months is enough time to change the oil if one were inclined to do that - it doesn't always come down to hourly wage versus cost of service because people do more than just earn a wage and sleep - like spending time on this forum, or watching TV, etc.
But there are lots of reasons to DIY if one is so inclined that have nothing to do with money - for me it's quicker and easier to do things like fluid/filter changes, brakes, etc. in my driveway at my leisure than to have to drive it to a dealership and either hang around or bother with a loaner vehicle. For those who have no experience with DIY on an MDX (and most vehicles) - many of the items are actually simple to do as long as one is physically capable of performing the tasks. In addition, when I DIY these items I know they're done correctly and that they're done at all.
I can understand why some people 'want' to DIY even when they don't need to (like me) and can also understand some people 'Don't want to DIY' regardless of their financial position. Both are fine but it's best to try not to infer as to the reasons one does one versus the other - the inference and conclusions will likely be wrong (as with your statement in retort to my post).
There's nothing at all wrong with DIYing things or not DIYing things and there's nothing wrong with saving money either, whether one 'needs' to or not but again, saving money isn't the only reason to DIY on a vehicle or anything else.
Another angle on the 'dealership experience' - I can see that some people might actually enjoy the opportunity to drive various loaners that a dealership might provide. That'd be on the plus side for choosing one dealership/brand over another (I think Acura would be better than Honda on this point but I've never owned a Honda).
To enjoy doing an oil change is a funny thing... what I am saying is that is not worth my time.
My friends wife is dying of brain cancer any day now, and 2 days ago his brother died of a heart attack. Even if it was free I wouldn't waste what little time I have on this earth doing simple tasks that any random person could do just as well. I make the unique contributions I can to my professional life and spend the one of a kind time with family and friends.
My friends wife is dying of brain cancer any day now, and 2 days ago his brother died of a heart attack. Even if it was free I wouldn't waste what little time I have on this earth doing simple tasks that any random person could do just as well. I make the unique contributions I can to my professional life and spend the one of a kind time with family and friends.
That's fine and exactly what you should do if that's what you want. I do the DIY because I 'want to', not because I 'need to', and I fully understand some people would rather do anything else in their non-working time than change the oil on their car. My point in the long post above was to just keep enough of an open mind to realize that just because you have no interest in doing it for whatever reasons doesn't mean others would only do it as a financial equation.
I'm not single focused on DIYing the MDX though and do many other things, which is good because it rarely needs any maintenance. Within the last 6 months I put 15K miles on it doing extensive leisure travel all over the place spending my time hiking, seeing people, places, etc. and I do a lot of other things, including DIYing lots of other things around the house because it's something I want to do.
Even when I worked, and I worked a lot of hours back then, I could find the time and inclination to change the oil the once every 6 months or so that it needed it. It can even be a good diversion from working a lot of hours as can a long hike, watching a movie, interfacing with others, perusing an MDX forum, gardening, etc.
Note - I guess we veered somewhat off topic of the Pilot versus the MDX.
MDXStang and I basically said the same thing, except he is retired and I'm still working
Yes of course to your statements above, the point is people choose how to spend their time and one person's view of a waste of time may be another person's hobby and vice versa. Sorry to hear about the sickness in your circle of family and friends - life throws a lot of challenges at all of us.
I will say that your statements continue to raise my eyebrow...."to enjoy doing an oil change is a funny thing" and "I wouldn't waste time doing simple tasks that any random person could do just as well" Obviously your prerogative on how you want to spend your money and time, and obviously working on cars is something where you don't have an interest (even though you said you have all the tools which is interesting). My wife is busy with work yet enjoys cooking...she enjoys looking at recipes and getting all the ingredients and chopping things and cooking. I dread spending an hour or more doing all that just to eat it. If I lived alone I would do more takeout or cook simple things. "Any random person" can cook our meals, cut our grass, do our laundry, fix our cars, vacuum our carpets, even occupy our kids' time if we want to pay them to do so. I would guess for many of the wrenchers on these forums it isn't only a financial decision. That said, I have done jobs myself like changing a VSA modulator or a starter or control arms and the list goes on, and I save real money doing those jobs myself. The VSA was going to be a $1400 job and I did it myself for the cost of a $200 part I found used.
Back to the Pilot vs MDX Comparison Though!
Cooking requires skill, creativity, precision, mastery. And other people get to enjoy that, the reward is a good meal with others. It is a worthy pursuit and something that is worth spending time on.
Oil changes and brake jobs, tearing apart the front end of the car to replace something... all meaningless procedural drivel. Most of the time it will take you the DIY twice as long to do an involved job at home as someone with a lift who does it every day.
I've done nearly every job a home diy mechanic can do, multiple times over. My conclusion is that it's a waste of time!
Oil changes and brake jobs, tearing apart the front end of the car to replace something... all meaningless procedural drivel. Most of the time it will take you the DIY twice as long to do an involved job at home as someone with a lift who does it every day.
I've done nearly every job a home diy mechanic can do, multiple times over. My conclusion is that it's a waste of time!
But do you get that it's just 'your' opinion that it's drivel and a waste of time? If you added the words 'to me' at the end of your statements they'd be accurate - 'meaningless drivel to me', 'waste of time to me', but not to some others.
Let's face it - just the time we've spent on this topic and especially on this forum is meaningless drivel to some (probably many) but must not be to you and me since here we are posting and in the time spent on it we could've changed our oil and be good for the next 6 months.
We all have our individual hobbies, interests, activities, pursuits and what's of interest to some is of no interest to others. Like Hogan's example - some people love the act of cooking but I don't so I don't spend any more time at it than I need to but I recognize many people do enjoy it so I wouldn't disparage them for it or make a value judgment and conclusion that they're only cooking themselves because they can't afford to have prepared food delivered to them (ostensibly while they're toiling away earning more money with their hours). I actually pay others to do that task anytime I have restaurant food but there are times I'd rather just spend the bit of time it takes and cook the meal myself because going to a restaurant is a hassle. Of course, better yet is for my wife to cook it so I can spend the time posting like this on the forum.
I'm not disparaging you for not DIYing - this started out by me simply saying that the dealership experience means next to nothing for me and one of the reasons is because I happen to DIY most things. It's okay if you put a lot of value on the dealership experience, whatever that may be, and I don't. You obviously enjoy going to a dealership more than I do and I'm more willing to do an oil change myself than you are. There's nothing wrong with either choice.
Since you spend a lot more time in a dealership than me - what exactly is it that you value on the Acura versus the Honda for that? In the end they both do the service requested. A plus for Acura I can think of is the free loaner if your dealership does that. As far as a waiting room area, I expect that'd vary even between Acura dealerships and they likely all have chairs and internet with some having desks/tables, etc. Maybe some have free donuts - I don't know.
Another potential plus for Acura versus Honda I think - a longer factory warranty period. It was no gain for me on my MDX since it had no warranty work done in that time period but the potential value was there.
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