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9 speed transmission confusion/lack of information

47K views 56 replies 24 participants last post by  kareshi 
#1 ·
I am going to replace my 2014 Base MDX and have been doing the research. Looks like another MDX, but I read about issues, in general, with the 9 speed transmission. The issues seem to be more active with the 2016 and less with the 2017. However, I find very little detail about the 2018 , and believe me, I have been searching looking.

It looks like I could avoid the issues with the 9 speed entirely by waiting for the 2018 Sport Hybrid. But a 2018 SW-AHD 9 speed w/Tech would be a negotiable price (and less expensive) than the Sport Hybrid which likely won't be negotiable for quite a while.

Confusion increases with reading that the 9 speed is fixable with software updates and assuring proper fluid levels but I also read a comment from someone who claims to know an engineer who works at Z9 and claims that "the transmission is fixable". Add to the mix the fact that, after many years, Honda has designed a new transmission and that 10 speed will replace the 9 speed - an indicator that the 9 speed isn't very good?

So my question for you is where does the 9 speed transmission issue sit today relative to a 2018. Is the transmission a poor performing problem, a stinker that kind of works, just mildly annoying once in a while or not really much of an issue?
 
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#2 ·
I own a 2017, so maybe I'm biased? But I also have first-hand day-to-day experience... So I guess take it how you want.

Is it my favorite transmission? No.
Do I regret buying it? No.
If my MDX was "totaled" and I needed a new vehicle would I buy another MDX with the ZF9? Yes.

I'm on both of the main Acura MDX forums... I don't recall a single thread about an actual failure of the ZF9. The only failures have been attributed to a defective warmer unit that allows transmission fluid to mix with engine coolant. This affected many 2016 units. There were five 2017 units affected, otherwise the 2017 model year was safe.

There have been several software updates to the shift logic. Personally, I think they've done a good job reacting to customer feedback and making the transmission shift closer to what people expect -- within the limitations of the mechanical design. The 4-5 and 7-8 shift will always feel a little different, because of the dog clutches.

As for as "some random guy on the internet knows another random guy (who won't go on record with their name/credentials) who claims to have inside information".... Well, you believe what you want to believe. I don't put much (any) faith or weight on those type of statements.

Ultimately, go to a dealer and play around with a MDX. Take it on a long test drive. Heck, go home, sleep on it, then come back and take it on another long test drive.

If the MDX doesn't suite your needs, then don't buy it. If you like the MDX but hate how the transmission shifts on your test drive, then don't buy it. But if you like the MDX, and the transmission doesn't bother you on the test drive then I say BUY IT!

As for the ZF9 vs Honda 10 speed... It's hard to say. Only the insiders know for sure. My opinion is: Honda has always liked to make their own transmissions. They're one of the few manufacturers who does. Honda wanted something "flashy" for their premium products (Acura and top-trim Honda Pilot) and their proven Hondamatic 6AT was "dated" in marketing terms. So Honda contracted with ZF for the ZF9HP48 to buy them time. Now we have the Honda 10 speed coming out... These things take time to develop, so I don't believe that Honda is releasing the 10 speed because of any problems with the ZF9... To the contrary, Honda certainly had to be working on the 10 speed prior to the ZF9 coming out -- it takes too long to design these things. Just my thoughts, though. I have no inside information or proof.
 
#3 ·
Thanks - your input is pretty much what I was looking for.

And I agree with you about internet feedback - it often has to pass through a BS filter before using. Owner/user feedback is always best, but there hasn't been much about the 2018 9 speed. In the usual scope of things, that should be a positive indicator because people spend much more time complaining than making positive comments.

The things I have read about the Honda 10 speed, at least as it is being used in the Odyssey, have been uniformly positive.

Agreed about a test drive being a critical factor, as always. I should have mentioned that I live in Upstate New York and my interest piqued a couple of weeks ago. Before I do a test drive, we need to get rid of enough snow to be able to drive normally without having to worry about sliding off the road. I would also like to try out the Sport Hybrid because of what I have read.

Anyhow - good stuff. Much appreciated.
 
#4 ·
Agreed about a test drive being a critical factor, as always. I should have mentioned that I live in Upstate New York and my interest piqued a couple of weeks ago. Before I do a test drive, we need to get rid of enough snow to be able to drive normally without having to worry about sliding off the road. I would also like to try out the Sport Hybrid because of what I have read.
You may consider doing a test drive now, so you can see how it handles in the snow. SH-AWD is phenomenal and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well it handles the white slush. Of course, go back and test drive during good weather on clear roads, as well. But you have an opportunity here that many people don't get -- whether due to time of year, or location -- to see how the MDX handles weather.
 
#5 ·
I went from a 2014 to a 2017 without much Research because I was happy with the 2014 and wanted to stick with an MDX. I didn’t notice much difference in my brief test drive of the 2017 but several days after taking ownership I began to notice the difference in the transmission; in particular, how it shifts from 1-2-3; and then again from around either 4-5 or 5-6th gear, in that it hesitates at first then changes abruptly. The sensation is exaggerated when the car is driven with a light foot and tends to improve when driven more aggressively. But since you mentioned it, driving in snowy conditions requires the light footed approach. Anyway, after research on this forum, I had my dealer upgrade the firmware and it did reduce the hesitation and has smoothed out the gear changes, but at the cost of dulling the performance somewhat. The good news is if you drive in S mode then the performance feels quite a bit more spirited. What the new firmware did not solve is the surge i continue to feel when I manually shift from 5-4 and again from 4-3rd gear. Furthermore, it seems my fuel consumption may have gone up somewhat.
All in all, I’m quite less annoyed by the transmission behaviour since the firmware change and I’m told the dealer expects more versions to become available. In comparison, I enjoyed the 2014.
However, I am a huge fan of the adaptive cruise control of my 2017 and even come to like having the active lane keeping feature. I’m always eager to change vehicles after 4 years so don’t actually regret getting the 2017.
Bottom line is go test drive and see if it’s something that will bother you.


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#6 ·
I don't like my 2017 with the ZF. As stated, almost no evidence of anybody being stranded by it, but I discharge it for behavior unbecoming of what an Acura should be. The fact there is so much discussion and so many posts about it is by itself an indication. The RDX doesn't seem to have any of this discussion about it's tranny by comparison. In fact, I have had one as the loaner for the many times my MDX has been in the shop and it drives fantastic. Would I get another MDX? perhaps. But not one with the ZF.

FWIW, make sure that the vehicle is cold when you test drive one. Many of the performance symptoms are more acute when it is cold. The dealers tend to either bring a warmed vehicle or they insist on the salesperson driving it for the first part of the ride to "show and tell" the feature. Caveat emptor.
 
#7 ·
Well, there is an upside to how much my wife hates the 9-speed ZF trans ( and push-button shifter ) in my 2016 Pilot Touring: she will drive her 6-speed equipped 2014 MDX until its wheels fall off, with her hand firmly wrapped around the shift lever as if she were Charlton Heston grasping his rifle.
 
#8 ·
I'm not the primary driver of our MDX but in regular driving I have zero complaints about its behavior, in fact lately I've really been impressed with how smooth and quick shifts around town. The ZF is always trying up shift and is a bit reluctant to give me downshifts unless I bury the pedal. Programming logic vs hard part failures, gee I think I'll take a durable unit that Acura actively improving with software updates vs. a turd with broken hard parts that Acura is denying warranty on. Some joyless people in this world can't let go of their crusade against the ZF, for the rest the latest software solves any concerns. By the way, the software updates are mostly 2016 MY, our 2017 was great out of the box. Extended test drive, decide for yourself.
 
#9 ·
I agree about the SH-AWD. I have it in mine (your comment caused me to update my signature to show the SH-AWD). Here in Rochester, NY we average 100" snow per year. Buffalo & Syracuse flank us and they get a little more than we do. Winter is usually 5+ months in total. The SH-AWD has been a terrific performer in the snow and because of that, I feel a lot better driving the MDX when it rains, as well.

The interesting thing is that there seems to be a diminishing set of less than positive about the ZF9 as you move from 2016 into later 2017 models. The 2014 is buttery smooth. So far, the input indicates that the ZF9 equipped models are not. For a ~$50K spend, it is reasonable to expect better.

Vic's comment above is what has been my nagging concern:
"As stated, almost no evidence of anybody being stranded by it, but I discharge it for behavior unbecoming of what an Acura should be."

What I am really hoping for is to hear from the owners of the 2018 to see if improvements continued and had mostly solved the issue.
 
#12 ·
What I am really hoping for is to hear from the owners of the 2018 to see if improvements continued and had mostly solved the issue.
Well, to the best of my knowledge it is still the same ZF that is in the '17. If it is performing better in the '18, then it would seem that it would be due to a software change only. To extend this questionable thinking on my part, if that were the case, I would hope that Acura would have issued a TSB for the '17 owners that are dissatisfied with the operation of their transmissions.

To offer balance to my disappointment with my very expensive Acura, I'll say this: I still have no plans to get rid of it and I'm not sure how much better the other choices are out there. In the case of the Mercedes, BMW or Porsche, it would cost a great deal more than the Acura to find out. I'm just saying this level of mechanical function is not anywhere near what I expected from an Acura. And for the idea that it is only a small percentage of owners with an axe to grind, I'd suggest a quick google search of "ZF 9 speed transmission issues" or a review of the two MDX forums to draw your own conclusions.
 
#10 ·
IIRC there have been some reports of hard failures of the ZF9HP in Honda Pilots. ( Dead on the highway... ). IMO that transmission hasn't been out long enough to assess long-term reliability, irrespective of what some zealots like to believe. And the jury is still out on whether the ATF warmer issue has been contained. I've been bitten twice by that nightmare, once with a Honda 5-speed and once with a ZF 9-speed. At least the ZF was kind enough to start chirping about it while the thing was under warranty. In this case, being a whiny princess was a good thing. The persistent temperamental misbehavior I could do without. I have a daughter for that kind of aggravation.
 
#11 ·
sometimes people don't reveal their sources because they don't want people they know to be at risk of losing a job. The world is an intolerant place these days. Where I work if someone disagrees, even if they are 100% right their career is over. Literally I have heard, "we don't promote people who ask ANY questions. We like people who just agree and go along."
 
#13 ·
I had one of the 2010 “two cycle” engine MDXs with the Bluetooth battery draining module and failed active dampers. I looked at the 2017 MDX but didn’t pull the trigger because of the reported issues with the 9 speed transmission. I just wasn’t willing to deal with another MDX with known issues. Looking forward to the 2021 refresh of the MDX that is supposed to get similar features to the upcoming 2019 RDX refresh. In the meantime, I am enjoying the 2018 Toyota Highlander Limited Platinum AWD with $10K still in my pocket.


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#14 ·
I traded in my 2009 MDX for a 2017 MDX in September 2016. Over 16 months, it was in the shop over a dozen times. In addition to the many issues with the car, I had a transmission issue which was never corrected, with the transmission seemingly going into neutral somewhere between 2nd and 3rd, and then kicking in agressively, lurching the car forward unexpectedly.

After my fourth visit in December (tailgate sensor replaced, tailgate switch replaced, fuel door not opening) I walked across the street and had Volvo buy out my lease and put me in an XC90.

Oh, and I had the frame of my entire middle row of seats replaced during the first week of ownership because it was rusted out... straight from the factory. Quality control, who needs it?

It was my third MDX, and it will be my last Acura.

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#15 ·
After my fourth visit in December (tailgate sensor replaced, tailgate switch replaced, fuel door not opening) I walked across the street and had Volvo buy out my lease and put me in an XC90.
After what you dealt with in a brand new vehicle I can't say I blame you. However I'd be curious how much better the XC90 holds up; reading on the Sweedespeed forums there is a fairly large sample size of complaints in the new (16+) generation of the XC90. Hopefully it works out better for you then the MDX did.
 
#17 ·
You're right, and I'm very aware of the issues that have come up in the 2016+ XC90. So far, most reports have been with the 2016 itself, and a few with the 2017. That said, I know with any modern vehicle, with so many electronics, is only a matter of time.

Unfortunately, with the MDX, I just got to a point where I resented it and needed out of it.

I hope everyone on here has better luck than I did!

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#18 ·
You're right, and I'm very aware of the issues that have come up in the 2016+ XC90. So far, most reports have been with the 2016 itself, and a few with the 2017. That said, I know with any modern vehicle, with so many electronics, is only a matter of time.

Unfortunately, with the MDX, I just got to a point where I resented it and needed out of it.

I hope everyone on here has better luck than I did!

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Definitely can understand. I love the look of the XC90, the only part that scares me is reliability, although as you point out Acura isn't the same from reliability as in years past. Both Acura and Infiniti are now both middle of the heap in Consumer Reports reliability, with Volvo a few spots below.

Although all of those reliability ratings, which were updated in October 2017, are likely mostly based on 2016 vehicles given their review cycle (send out survey in March 2017, collect feedback and publish results in October 2017). The MDX, QX60 and XC90 all underwent some redesign in 2016 (primarily transmission and infotainment except XC90 which is complete redesign), and the 1st year of any major change/redesign almost always has a lot of issues. All of this likely had a huge impact on the reliability of all 3 brands and vehicles. I'm curious to see this October how the reliability ratings for each vehicle changed for the 2017 model year.

Conveniently, the Audi Q7 which is the top rated in this category, 2016 was the last model year of their old generation. 2017 marks a redesign of the Q7 and as such their current reliability ratings don't include any issues from that redesign. And of course the Enclave was redesigned in 2018, meaning those issues likely won't show up until next year. So reliability ratings for the Q7 and Enclave could be inflated considering they don't include the latest redesign.
 
#16 ·
Personally I like my 2016 MDX. I like the pushbutton transmission controls - a lot - and wouldn't want to go back to a faux mechanical shifter (it is still just a switch, not connected to anything mechanically). I usually don't use the sport mode, but it is useful in heavy traffic to keep from upshifting just when you need to slow down. It is fun when pushing a little on winding roads but costly on fuel. For the great majority of my driving I just leave it in "D" and it performs well. As others have said, some shift points can be less than smooth - a problem that was partially solved by a firmware update. This is probably caused by the fact that two of the four clutches are "dog" clutches, which don't slip and thus require close rpm matches for the shift. Also, the first couple of gears are really low, great for coming off lights quickly or moving loads or trailering, but definitely an acquired taste.

Set against the negatives, according to one source this transmission gets 16% better gas mileage versus the 6 speed. I can believe it; this car does really well at the pump (unless driven hard of course). And what is often overlooked is that the firmware is adaptive to the driver's style. I would strongly recommend to anyone buying a used or demo MDX to have the service department reset the learning system so that it adapts to your style (easy for them to do).

Bottom line is that although it is not quite as smooth as one might reasonably expect in a (lower end) luxury SUV, it is acceptable to me. And the fuel mileage is very good.

BTW I do not find the paddle shifters particularly useful - with 9 speeds a downshift may entail dropping 2 or even 3 gears, and it is easy to not get that right manually. When downshifting in order to accelerate (e.g.pass someone) the automatic gets it right - at least for me and my style and whatever settings the controls have learned. And try as I might, my manual shifts in stop-and-go traffic are much rougher than the tranny in "S" mode. (Until this car I have only had manual transmissions since 1973, so it is not a lack of experience there.)

As always, YMMV.
 
#19 ·
Also regardless of vehicle, don't forget about Lemon Law. Whether it's the MDX, XC90 or any other vehicle, Lemon Laws are there in case you get stuck with a new vehicle that has tons of issues.

In fact, many owners of the XC90 on Sweedespeed forums have successfully been able to convince Volvo to buy back defective vehicles and essentially give them a refund. By doing this the manufacturer doesn't have to list the vehicle title as a lemon, which would force them to sell them for pennies on the dollar. You definitely need to have all paperwork together outlining the fact you've made multiple trips to the dealer to get serious problems resolved and need to be able to effectively tell your story to the manufacturer in order for them to consider it, and as always YMMV. Each manufacturer will be different in terms of how willing they are to do this on a case by case basis.

So if you buy any new vehicle and are stuck with a defective vehicle that has a lot of actual problems (more than just not liking a vehicle's shifting patterns), please remember that you still have some protections.
 
#20 ·
We're all likely to have better luck than the few that have real problems, its basic statistics. The MDX is a very reliable vehicle. As most of us already know, a negative experience is many times more likely to result in a thread, post, or review than everything going as planned.

The number of threads about the 9 speed for instance are a real data point, but then one needs to apply some critical thinking skills to what one reads. Clearly it's the behavior of the 9 speed that people complain about (mostly in the 16MY), this is MUCH different than a high failure rate which in the case of the 9 speed is virtually zero. It would be much different if there was a high failure rate, but it's 100% on you if you buy a car that you don't like how it shifts. Message boards and all the reviews in the world will not answer the question if you'll like how the MDX operates.

The people that test drive and buy an MDX and THEN complain about how it shifts remind me of the people that buy a house near an airport and then complain about the noise.
 
#21 ·
While I don't disagree with your post, my complaint was not with the way it shifted as a 9 speed. I had an extended test drive and I was aware of some of the quirks with the dog clutches. What I was seeing was odd behavior, only happened on the first drive of the day, and was exacerbated by the cold. I had taken a short video of the behavior for my dealer, who then sent it to Acura. Unfortunately they could never determine what it was. Here's the video - note I am applying even throttle throughout.

https://youtu.be/8dhzQO_GT9s

All of that said, there is NO excuse for corrosion ANYWHERE on a brand new car. And this just made me question what was going on in quality control. Have a look for yourself.



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#25 ·
600,000 km ?! I'll be fascinated to hear what they offer for trade-in...

As for the limitations of test driving vehicles with the ZF9HP transmission, the controller is adaptive, and adaptation takes days, not minutes. Also, terrain and driving conditions count, not just driver behavior. So the darn thing isn't really WYSIWYG unless you can see the future.
 
#29 ·
I have a 2017 and the 9-speed, for the most part, shifts OK. Wish it shifted a bit faster at full throttle (a minor gripe). My main issue is the huge delay at lower speeds when you might be going 10 or 20 miles per hour and need fast acceleration, such as a highway entrance ramp or waiting to make a turn in town across oncoming traffic. You stab the pedal and it takes (seemingly) like forever before the trans does anything. This delay has scared me several times. I've mentioned it to dealer, and he is aware of the issue, but there seems to be no software "fix" for this behavior yet. Likely a software thing.
 
#30 ·
Not sure if it helps, but I was driving a 2017 loaner for about a month before we got our 2018. I immediately noticed that the 2018 seems to shift much better overall. You really don't notice it anymore, whereas I did constantly in the 2017. It felt abnormal in the 2017 but feels pretty much normal in the 2018. However, the first gear is REALLY low, to the point where it seems rather useless. But if you want to startle passengers with a quick take-off, it's pretty sweet.
 
#31 ·
I think a lot depends on when the 2017 was built. When I drove some earlier-built 2017's I found the transmission shifts not as smooth as the '17 I bought, which was built in July 2017 (late in production). I think it boils down to the SW update....

andy
 
#32 ·
Out of curiosity, with reported transmission failures & replacements on the 9 speed in 16-18 were almost all of these due to the transmission warmer defect that allowed engine coolant to mix with the ATF fluid? Or were there some other sporadic causes? It sounds like there were more then a few people who had to get new transmissions.

Reading up on Acura reliability in general and how it's taken a nosedive in recent years I guess I didn't realize back almost 30 years they've both historically experienced severe transmission issues resulting in complete transmission failures. When I think of Acura I think of them as being bulletproof reliable, which only came into question in the past 6 years or so. I apparently didn't get "the memo".

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/

Granted none of the historical problems directly correlate to the 9 speed on the MDX, other than to say there's a clear pattern over 30 years of Honda/Acura engineers building poor transmissions. All of which makes me nervous that at some point the transmission will fail. I always assumed if you took care of your vehicle and performed scheduled maintenance as required you'd be able to drive it well over 150k miles without requiring a new transmission.
 
#35 ·
I always assumed if you took care of your vehicle and performed scheduled maintenance as required you'd be able to drive it well over 150k miles without requiring a new transmission.
I still don't see any evidence to suggest otherwise.

It is anecdotal, but my personal experience with Honda vehicles has been they are exceptionally reliable.

Case in point was my wife's 2001 Honda Accord V6 Coupe. This year was notorious for supposed "problems". We put 160k on the odometer without a transmission issue. Sold it private party and saw the new owner driving it around town for several more years, without issue.

I'm anal about proper maintenance, however.

It's just a theory, but I believe that the average person doesn't take as good care of their vehicle as they think they do. For example, if you use a "quick-lube" place then I think that's a bad idea; even for just an oil change, but especially for larger services -- transmission flush, I'm looking at you! I also think people trust dealers to properly do services, but it's been my observation that many -- not all, calm down -- do not do the services properly, or even at all. Transmission flush machine? Honda/Acura says HELL NO. Yet many dealers have them in their shops.
Mechanics are paid "book time" and have an incentive to rush and/or cut corners. Service departments are profit centers. Many dealerships recommend services that their manufacturers either do not recommend, or actively lobby against. Additives? HELL NO. Yet many dealerships sell them. Engine flush? Fuel injection service? Keep that crap away from my engine... Yet I've seen dealers push it as "required".

Just my $0.02.
 
#36 ·
^^^ This makes sense. However if you really look online you can see there have been a long history of transmission failures and torque converters failing in all Acuras and the MDX back to at least 2000 or 2001. Plenty of people with the 14 MDX have needed new torque converters. Then go to 2016 and the transmission warmer defect causing ATF and engine coolant fluid mixing required new transmissions. What happened in 2016 and 2017 MDX in other words isn't just a flash in the pan where prior to that transmissions were all extremely reliable.

So almost every year from 2001-2017 there have been issues where Acura has needed to replace transmissions and/or torque converters. That doesn't exactly instill confidence that once you get past the powertrain warranty you won't suddenly start to experience issues. In fact a lot of people had their torque converters fail just after the powertrain warranty runs out. Some of them were able to get Acura to replace it anyway, but not all.

While every manufacturer will experience some off issues here and there with Acura this appears to be a series of long-running issues that they just can't seem to get right, especially when they continuously develop brand new transmission technology without fully addressing flaws with current models. If it's not one problem it's another, and something is always manifesting itself.

All this is to say that before coming across this information online I was always under the impression that when it comes to reliability Acura was always at the top of the heap except for the past few years when they came out with the new 9 speed on the TLX. This isn't true because they've had a good 17+ year history of transmission problems across nearly all models and model years.

Even if a vehicle isn't experiencing any issues now, there's a strong chance that come 70k miles and up (after your powertrain warranty runs out) that you'll need significant work into the transmission, torque converter or other linked components. That isn't much different than many other brands (Dodge, Cadillac, Volvo, etc). For people who plan on keeping their new MDX for the long haul this is cause for concern.
 
#37 ·
I see no cause for concern. The Internet can be great for learning and sharing information... But it is a double-edged sword. You see complaints because people take the time to complain. Rarely do people make posts saying "Checking in... Everything's great!".

EVERY brand has had transmission issues, over the years. Transmissions are precision machines, built down to a price, that have to deal with a lot of crap.

You say that Acura has "a good 17+ year history of transmission problems across nearly all models and model years" and yet their reputation is one of QUALITY. Why? Because no manufacturer is perfect, and in the grand scheme of things Honda/Acura does tend to produce vehicles that are better designed and better built than the average. Are you guaranteed to have zero problems? No. Do some people experience unfortunate or even catastrophic failures? Sure. But on average, most people find that Honda/Acura vehicles are exceptionally reliable; so Honda/Acura has that (well-earned) reputation.

Also, keep in mind that Honda/Acura sell a lot of vehicles. The MDX, in particular, has been the best-selling luxury 3rd row SUV for years. How many failures have you read about? What % of vehicles do you think they represent?
 
#38 ·
Look I'm not disputing they have a reputation for quality. I myself admit when I think of Acura I think of quality and reliability. Same with my wife and her mother, and just about everyone I know. Word of mouth does wonders.
They've done an excellent job of making their brand synonymous with quality and reliability. This is the primary reason why I've looked into the MDX in the first place.

I'm just providing evidence that there are a LOT of issues over the years where Acura had to completely replace transmissions and torque converters. Hence the class action lawsuit and recalls mentioned in the following article. You don't have a class action lawsuit if it's just your lemon here and there, it's indicative of a much larger problem. This doesn't transfer to the new MDX but it just supports the idea that reliability isn't what it once was.

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/honda-transmission-problems-seem-to-persist/

I'm also not disputing that the MDX is a hot selling vehicle and that Acura has managed to sell a lot of vehicles, they certainly have and a large part of that has to deal with the reputation they've built. My wife's mom has a 2000 3.2 TL and she bought it because "Acura is reliable", yet her vehicle is one of the vehicles covered in the class action lawsuit. Same with my wife's 2001 3.2 CL. Both of them when looking for new cars think of Acura as being bulletproof in reliability because that's what they've heard over the years.

I agree and said that all manufacturers will have an occasional lemon, that's not in question. I'm also definitely not suggesting Acura is inferior to the competition in this regard. Just pointing out that they aren't leaps and bounds better. This is all borne out by Consumer Reports and JD Power's reliability ratings of the Acura brand as a whole and specifically the MDX. Honestly outside of Toyota and Lexus, there really isn't another manufacturer in this segment who's leaps and bounds better than Acura from a long term reliability and quality standpoint. So pretty much regardless of which 3 row luxury mid-size SUV you buy, whether that's an MDX, Q7, XC90, QX60, etc, you're basically in the same boat with questionable long term reliability and quality due to issues reported in the past.

I initially wrote off reliability ratings from Consumer Reports and JD Power of Acura being middle of the pack as being due to a one time flash in the pan issue with the brand new 9 speed transmission in 15/16 (TLX and MDX). There is plenty of evidence to support their broader conclusions on reliability for Acura and the MDX, which they get directly from vehicle owners.

All of this isn't intended to be reasons NOT to buy an Acura or an MDX. From my perspective initially one of the main perceived advantages the MDX had over the competition was perceived quality and reliability. I wanted a vehicle that very rarely needs to go in for service and is almost never likely to experience a catastrophic failure of the engine or transmission. In other words I was looking to buy an MDX and the primary reason why I considered the MDX over the competition is I felt they had the edge in reliability.

My only point is that initially I considered the MDX vastly superior to the competition in quality and reliability, and it was one of the main reasons my search centered on the MDX instead of the competition. I just might need to alter that assumption is all. It's not a reason not to buy the MDX, but it's definitely a reason that I should at least consider the competition as well if every vehicle in this segment in the same ballpark from an anticipated reliability standpoint. But that's all it is: anticipated reliability. No one knows what actual reliability will be like over the next 10 years with the 17 or 18 MDX. They may be perfectly fine with no transmission or torque converter issues and cause Acura to rebound in a big way for reliability and quality ratings. They may not. Only time will tell.
 
#44 ·
Elliot Scheiner (the guy seen at the mixer in the EL Audio literature) might have a "tin ear", huh?? I had a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit and let me tell ya - the Harman-Kardon 825 watt system with 19 speakers was simply AMAZING (but the rest of the car wasn't, sadly). And their 8.4 U-Connect infotainment/nav system was the easiest and most intuitive one I've ever seen. It can all be done with one, large screen. None of this split-screen crapola needed, although here you find people that love it. I ain't one of them.
 
#45 ·
If you want good sound then replace the speakers - it is small beer compared to the price of the car and the results are excellent. (There is another thread here where we discussed our speaker upgrades for 2014-2016, and I expect that is the same for 2017-2018.) The "ELS" speakers are cheap OEM units with an "ELS" sticker on them - does a 15W max rating for the door speakers sound like audiophile to you? The door and center dash speakers are very easy to replace, with the pillar speakers requiring a bit more customizing but still easy. The subwoofer is a bit more work as accessing it and cutting away some internal plastic in the enclosure is a bit awkward but nothing a DIYer can't handle.

I have a Base SH-AWD model (2016, no nav system) so the upper display is used mostly as a clock. I much prefer the new Pilot's arrangement with a single large display, and the climate controls have a small display of their own.
 
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