Disclosures
Let me preface this by stating that I personally enjoy the way the ZF9 drives (primarily in Sport, but even Normal and Comfort have been fine after the TSB 15-054) and have no qualms about the push button shifter. I am creating this tracking thread because Honda has found a problem, issued instructions for the repair ONLY for the Honda Pilots, is offering them a 10 year/unlimited mileage warranty on the failed part as a result, and yet... is quiet for the other vehicles affected (including us). Since I am experiencing the exact symptoms they describe, I'm going to get this addressed one way or another.
References
Acura TSB 15-054 (ZF9 Software Update): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/B15-054/enu/B15-054.PDF
Acura TSB 16-042 (Front Suspension Squeaks/Pops): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/B16-042/enu/B16-042.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-009 (Product Update: 2016 Pilot 9-Speed Transmission Warmer): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-009/enu/A17-009.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-011 (Product Update: 9-Speed Transmission Warmer (Transmission Previously Replaced for Transmission Warmer Leaking): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-011/enu/A17-011.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-035 (Warranty Extension: Transmission Chirps During 3-4 Shift, Poor Shift Quality, or Engine Overheats Because of Defective ATF Warmer): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-035/enu/A17-035.PDF
*IF you are unable to open these links or get a message about not being authorized, go to this link (https://estore.honda.com/acura/acce...ui-list.asp?year=2017&model=MDX&modelName=MDX), click on any manual, then try these links again. Credit always goes to EE4Life for TSBs.
Discovery of Issue
Last week, I began to notice that my 14k mile old 2016 MDX (Tech, SHAWD, AWP, but it should matter since we all share the same transmission) was chirping in turns. Initially, I had thought this was the squeaking front suspension issue due to rubber spring seats shifting out of place identified in TSB 16-042, but it did not sound like a metal on metal rubbing noise. Instead, it sounded closer to a whistle sort of noise, but in a very short duration, thus a chirp. Additionally, to verify that it was not 16-042, I checked the spring seats myself and found no loose seats.
Then E92Vancouver mentioned a chirp on 9/1/17: http://www.mdxers.org/forums/94-thi...safe-buy-seems-many-issues-2.html#post1322865
And Wanderlust confirmed the issue existing in 2016 (and some 2017 after some research) Pilots due to defective ATF warmers, which the 2016+ MDXes also use: http://www.mdxers.org/forums/94-thi...safe-buy-seems-many-issues-2.html#post1322937
Then, two nights ago, I drove with my wife in the middle of the night doing a series of slowings to ~15-20 mph and accelerating again in a straight line. I could reproduce the chirp on numerous tries.
And then shinkle on Piloteers gave a description of symptoms that I am experiencing pretty much to the T: ZF Nine-Speed Transmission Problems, recalls and praise. - Page 29 - Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums
Uh oh, they just started me on another "episode." :|
Details of the Failure
Now, let's get to the problem.
Honda describes it as:
Plain and simple, ZF produced a defective transmission warmer, PN 06224-5J4-000, that is being used across all ZF9 vehicles in the Honda family including the newer Pilots, Odysseys, TLX, and MDX. Honda initially claimed to have isolated the defective batch to warmers manufactured from April 28, 2015 to July 15, 2015 (identified with a sticker on the warmer itself like Wanderlust did: 2016 9 speed transmission warmer replacement 17-009 - Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums), but if you follow the evolution of the Honda TSBs, you will see that they have removed the date check from the latest A17-035 TSB and have now included 2017 Pilots in the A17-011 and A17-035 TSBs. As such, I'm pretty sure the problem still exists, but perhaps with much less frequency because they have found the culprit now.
The flowcharts in the TSB show that if you are found to have cross contaminated fluids, they are supposed to change your radiator, transmission (including the warmer), the hoses, and flush the engine (~11 hours of work, ~12 if you have an external ATF cooler for towing). If you have also overheated, then you also need a new engine (~14 hours-15 hours). Woof. :crying2:
cvsy24 on Piloteers summarized it well:
Recommended Course of Action for MDXers
At this point, we need to band together for relief because it is obviously happening for us too (me, E92Vancouver so far that I've seen). If you are experiencing any of the symptoms listed before, I encourage you to check you coolant from the radiator cap and report back. Then bring your vehicle in to show them and get the problem addressed. Until I see a TSB issued for the MDX, TLX, and Odyssey about this exact same issue, I'm assuming Honda is either just moving really slowly for us (heck, the pictures of the repair procedure in the TSBs are of a black MDX from California, license plate 7JGC018). As mentioned previously, I do not think the problem is merely isolated to that manufacturing range of the warmers, so keep watch even if you have a recent build. Post here if you've experienced the failure and what your repairs were.
What to Expect from Me
I have an appointment scheduled for next Wednesday morning to bring it in and diagnose. If this turns out to be another issue, I'll let you know and apologize for crying wolf, but from what I've experienced thus far, I'm betting that I'm going down the same path as numerous Piloteers have. Hopefully Honda won't fight me if it does turn out to be that issue. Furthermore, it will be really good to know what our warranty coverage will look like because...
Let me preface this by stating that I personally enjoy the way the ZF9 drives (primarily in Sport, but even Normal and Comfort have been fine after the TSB 15-054) and have no qualms about the push button shifter. I am creating this tracking thread because Honda has found a problem, issued instructions for the repair ONLY for the Honda Pilots, is offering them a 10 year/unlimited mileage warranty on the failed part as a result, and yet... is quiet for the other vehicles affected (including us). Since I am experiencing the exact symptoms they describe, I'm going to get this addressed one way or another.
References
Acura TSB 15-054 (ZF9 Software Update): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/B15-054/enu/B15-054.PDF
Acura TSB 16-042 (Front Suspension Squeaks/Pops): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/B16-042/enu/B16-042.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-009 (Product Update: 2016 Pilot 9-Speed Transmission Warmer): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-009/enu/A17-009.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-011 (Product Update: 9-Speed Transmission Warmer (Transmission Previously Replaced for Transmission Warmer Leaking): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-011/enu/A17-011.PDF
HONDA TSB A17-035 (Warranty Extension: Transmission Chirps During 3-4 Shift, Poor Shift Quality, or Engine Overheats Because of Defective ATF Warmer): http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/AH/A17-035/enu/A17-035.PDF
*IF you are unable to open these links or get a message about not being authorized, go to this link (https://estore.honda.com/acura/acce...ui-list.asp?year=2017&model=MDX&modelName=MDX), click on any manual, then try these links again. Credit always goes to EE4Life for TSBs.
Discovery of Issue
Last week, I began to notice that my 14k mile old 2016 MDX (Tech, SHAWD, AWP, but it should matter since we all share the same transmission) was chirping in turns. Initially, I had thought this was the squeaking front suspension issue due to rubber spring seats shifting out of place identified in TSB 16-042, but it did not sound like a metal on metal rubbing noise. Instead, it sounded closer to a whistle sort of noise, but in a very short duration, thus a chirp. Additionally, to verify that it was not 16-042, I checked the spring seats myself and found no loose seats.
Then E92Vancouver mentioned a chirp on 9/1/17: http://www.mdxers.org/forums/94-thi...safe-buy-seems-many-issues-2.html#post1322865
And Wanderlust confirmed the issue existing in 2016 (and some 2017 after some research) Pilots due to defective ATF warmers, which the 2016+ MDXes also use: http://www.mdxers.org/forums/94-thi...safe-buy-seems-many-issues-2.html#post1322937
Then, two nights ago, I drove with my wife in the middle of the night doing a series of slowings to ~15-20 mph and accelerating again in a straight line. I could reproduce the chirp on numerous tries.
And then shinkle on Piloteers gave a description of symptoms that I am experiencing pretty much to the T: ZF Nine-Speed Transmission Problems, recalls and praise. - Page 29 - Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums
Uh oh, they just started me on another "episode." :|
Details of the Failure
Now, let's get to the problem.
Honda describes it as:
If you are experiencing contamination due to this failure, when you open the radiator cap (only when stone cold please!), the coolant will look BROWN and like a milkshake (anyone having deja vu nightmares yet?). You can also check via the transmission's fill hole/check plug for the same brown milkshake.
Plain and simple, ZF produced a defective transmission warmer, PN 06224-5J4-000, that is being used across all ZF9 vehicles in the Honda family including the newer Pilots, Odysseys, TLX, and MDX. Honda initially claimed to have isolated the defective batch to warmers manufactured from April 28, 2015 to July 15, 2015 (identified with a sticker on the warmer itself like Wanderlust did: 2016 9 speed transmission warmer replacement 17-009 - Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums), but if you follow the evolution of the Honda TSBs, you will see that they have removed the date check from the latest A17-035 TSB and have now included 2017 Pilots in the A17-011 and A17-035 TSBs. As such, I'm pretty sure the problem still exists, but perhaps with much less frequency because they have found the culprit now.
The flowcharts in the TSB show that if you are found to have cross contaminated fluids, they are supposed to change your radiator, transmission (including the warmer), the hoses, and flush the engine (~11 hours of work, ~12 if you have an external ATF cooler for towing). If you have also overheated, then you also need a new engine (~14 hours-15 hours). Woof. :crying2:
cvsy24 on Piloteers summarized it well:
The warmer is about a $250 part, while the transmission is about $4,000. I'm not even going to count what the engine costs. This is one big F-up by ZF.
Recommended Course of Action for MDXers
At this point, we need to band together for relief because it is obviously happening for us too (me, E92Vancouver so far that I've seen). If you are experiencing any of the symptoms listed before, I encourage you to check you coolant from the radiator cap and report back. Then bring your vehicle in to show them and get the problem addressed. Until I see a TSB issued for the MDX, TLX, and Odyssey about this exact same issue, I'm assuming Honda is either just moving really slowly for us (heck, the pictures of the repair procedure in the TSBs are of a black MDX from California, license plate 7JGC018). As mentioned previously, I do not think the problem is merely isolated to that manufacturing range of the warmers, so keep watch even if you have a recent build. Post here if you've experienced the failure and what your repairs were.
What to Expect from Me
I have an appointment scheduled for next Wednesday morning to bring it in and diagnose. If this turns out to be another issue, I'll let you know and apologize for crying wolf, but from what I've experienced thus far, I'm betting that I'm going down the same path as numerous Piloteers have. Hopefully Honda won't fight me if it does turn out to be that issue. Furthermore, it will be really good to know what our warranty coverage will look like because...
Deja vu...