Winter Tires: 235 or 245??

[TWOxMDX]

I have a set of Honda Pilot take off wheels that I am going to use for winter that need some rubber.

I believe I am set on the Blizzak DM-V1s, now I need to decide the size; 235 65-17 or 245 65-17.

The 235s are an excellent match for diameter but I am a bit concerned as to if this is enough tire for dry roads. I appreciate that the narrower tire will be beneficial in the snow.

The 245s are a bit taller than OE to the tune of about 2%. Aside from the gearing being off by 2% these would provide a bit more rubber for dry roads but might float a bit in snow (I am in NJ so only occasional snow).

Price differential is just $8 per tire so rather inconsequential.

Any experiences out there someone might like to share on this subject?

[symmetrical]

Well where I live we don't really have to deal with winter tires so my opinion will be an outside one. But I'm guessing since you have a dedicated set for snow usage, maybe it's probably best you go with the 235s for maximum safety in the snow? Safety in the dry I think its a non-issue either way.

[nsxtasy]

I agree with symmetrical. (Our opinions are in symmetry!) You're getting winter tires for winter conditions, so get the size that's better for that, which is 235.

There's no significant benefit for the 245. You're not going to experience any significant difference in dry grip - and besides, that's not what winter tires are for. (If you care that much about dry grip with your winter tires rather than grip on snow and ice, you might be better off with the performance winter tires rather than studless ice and snow winter tires.)

Also, the 235 size will maintain the accuracy of your speedometer and odometer.

But the other thing to realize is, all the differences between 235 and 245 - winter traction, dry traction, gearing, etc - are really really small, so whichever way you go, won't make all that much difference anyway!

[boston]

I've swapped tire width sizes more than that. You might notice a difference but it's not enough to be an issue unlike you drive like a lunatic!


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[gwilki]

We do get snow here in the great white north. I went with 235's and have no regrets at all. They hold well on dry and dig through snow very well, too.

[Snow White]

We're running 235/60/18 Blizzak DM-V1 on stock rims with no complaints.

[TWOxMDX]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Looks like 235s it is!

[Bill_de]

Can someone explain to me why folks, other than those who live in the Great White North, feel a need to put snow tires on an AWD vehicle. I'm old enough to remember when radials were introduced, and even sold tires for awhile. All radials were stamped M/S, indicating they were rated for mud and snow. We put them on our RWD cars and got through whatever Mother Nature threw at us. I lived in NY at the time, and we got a fair amount of snow every winter.

I haven't bought tires in over 20 years, replacing cars before it becomes necessary. So I'm wondering if new radials are not rated M/S, or are folks just unable to drive their AWD vehicles properly?

[nsxtasy]

Originally Posted by Bill_de

I'm wondering if new radials are not rated M/S, or are folks just unable to drive their AWD vehicles properly?

Wow, that's a narrow-minded way of putting it. Neither is the case. The simple fact is, winter tires provide better traction on snow and ice than all-seasons do. They also provide better traction on dry pavement in sub-freezing temperatures than all-seasons do. That's because winter tires are designed specifically for winter conditions, rather than all-seasons, which are a compromise designed for the flexibility of handling both warm weather and cold weather.

Even where it only snows once in a while, many people prefer to choose the tire that will provide better traction in the worst conditions, to ensure that they can always get where they're going. You can read more in this article, which includes a test comparison between winter tires and all-seasons:

It's Always Best to Match Tires in the Worst Conditions

[lion9mdx]

Originally Posted by Bill_de

Can someone explain to me why folks, other than those who live in the Great White North, feel a need to put snow tires on an AWD vehicle

Winter tires help you to stop and turn better, not just go.

[Bill_de]

Originally Posted by nsxtasy

Wow, that's a snide and narrow-minded way of putting it. Neither is the case. The simple fact is, winter tires provide better traction on snow and ice than all-seasons do. They also provide better traction on dry pavement in sub-freezing temperatures than all-seasons do. That's because winter tires are designed specifically for winter conditions, rather than all-seasons, which are a compromise designed for the flexibility of handling both warm weather and cold weather.

Even where it only snows once in a while, many people prefer to choose the tire that will provide better traction in the worst conditions, to ensure that they can always get where they're going. You can read more in this article, which includes a test comparison between winter tires and all-seasons:

It's Always Best to Match Tires in the Worst Conditions

So a tire manufacturer and a tire retailer determined that you should buy more tires. That's a real surprise.

Of course the carefully picked the vehicle;

" We drove 2007 Toyota Camry sedans with the 268HP of their front-mounted engines transmitted through automatic transmissions and front-wheel drives. While not equipped with traction control, the Camry sedans feature Anti-lock Brake Systems (ABS), as well as a variable-assist power rack-and-pinion steering."

And, not AWD, which I was talking about.

[nsxtasy]

On snow, on ice, and in frigid temperatures, winter tires provide better traction on AWD vehicles, not just FWD vehicles. Do the same test on an MDX, and winter tires will provide the same advantages, with better traction during acceleration, braking, and cornering than all-seasons. Winter tire technology has experienced tremendous advancements over the years, to the point where today's studless winter tires offer better grip in most winter conditions than studded tires with studs installed. I've experienced the improved performance myself, on my own MDX, as have many other owners here.

Many people want the better traction of winter tires for winter conditions, and don't want to accept the compromise and reduced winter performance inherent in all-seasons.

Just because YOU don't want better traction in winter conditions, doesn't mean everybody else doesn't (and doesn't mean you need to insult those who do). Deal with it.

[TWOxMDX]

Originally Posted by Bill_de

Can someone explain to me why folks, other than those who live in the Great White North, feel a need to put snow tires on an AWD vehicle. I'm old enough to remember when radials were introduced, and even sold tires for awhile. All radials were stamped M/S, indicating they were rated for mud and snow. We put them on our RWD cars and got through whatever Mother Nature threw at us. I lived in NY at the time, and we got a fair amount of snow every winter.

I haven't bought tires in over 20 years, replacing cars before it becomes necessary. So I'm wondering if new radials are not rated M/S, or are folks just unable to drive their AWD vehicles properly?

Bill, at the risk of feeding the troll I will respond to your post but let me point out that a bit of manners would make this forum and others like it a much more pleasant place to frequent.

By your own admission you have not owned a car long enough to need to replace the tires over the last 20 years; how nice for you. My father would suggest this is the behavior of someone with more money than sense, but I can appreciate the idea of never dealing with wear and tear and longer term maintenance. However, this also means you have likely never experienced the amazing capabilities of today's modern swow tires; I would say the difference between all weather tires and today's snow tires rivals, if not surpasses the enhanced capability of AWD vs. RWD. You can poo-poo that if you like, but until you have driven cars w/ and w/o snows, you really shouldn't comment.

As for my own circumstance, I have typically held on to my cars for 10 years or so and easily put 140K miles on them. As a result, I fully anticipate putting at least 4 sets of replacement tires on my cars. Knowing that I will eventually be replacing tires multiple times, I will simply put winter miles on winter tires which are optimized for winter conditions and the non-winter miles will go on tires optimized for those conditions (yes, I even drive on summer tires, perhaps I need some summer driving lessons as well?). For me the winter tires themselves are not an extra expense, just an alternative expense (however, to be fair, the extra set of wheels certainly is an added expense).

Assuming you drive an MDX, I would be interested in your answer to the following question, perhaps it might help you wrap your mind around the idea of winter tires: "except for people who live off-road, why would anyone need AWD? Perhaps they just can't operate their two wheel drive vehicles properly?"

Peace

[gwilki]

Since I do live in the Great White North, I figure that I don't need to feel insulted at all by Bill's comments. :-)

The point about using tires developed for cold temps and cold pavement has been made. For me, with AWD, I can "go" pretty much any where with caution and proper driving habits. What I had some issue with was "stopping". We get a lot of ice here and I was not stopping the way that I wanted to. Snow is easy. When it's deep enough, just take your foot off the gas. The piled up snow will stop you quickly. Ice is another matter.
I think another point that is relevant is that manufacturers generally refer to them as "winter tires" now, not "snow tires" like they did when I sold them. In the 60's, snow tires were nothing more than tires with big honking lugs so that they didn't fill with packed snow. The technology has come a long way. As has been said, the big difference between winter and all season tires now is the rubber compound. The winter tires are still sticky when it's very cold.
I don't trust government studies generally, but the study in Quebec and lead legislators to make winter tires on all four wheels mandatory shows that they do reduce accidents in the winter. I don't live in Quebec, so I still have a choice. I choose to do what I can to keep those in my car as safe as I can, no matter the temp or the road surface.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by nsxtasy

They also provide better traction on dry pavement in sub-freezing temperatures than all-seasons do. That's because winter tires are designed specifically for winter conditions, rather than all-seasons, which are a compromise designed for the flexibility of handling both warm weather and cold weather.

This is incorrect, while they're better in the snow and ice, they aren't better on dry pavement.

2009 Winter Tire Test - Comparison Tests

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S - Ultra High Performance All Season



Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 - All Season



Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 - Peformance Winter



Michelin X-Ice Xi2 - Snow and Ice