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Acura to admit J37 oil consumption problem?

71K views 127 replies 41 participants last post by  skinny2 
#1 ·
Is Honda/Acura ready to own up to the oil consumption problem with J37 engine? A copy of the article below, original document attached.

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Acura Tech Line Summary Article
July 2016 BTS 160705 Version 1
Engine Oil Consumption
AFFECTED VEHICLES
2010−13 MDX, 2011−12 RL, 2010−14 TL, and 2010−13 ZDX
Engine oil consumption may be exceeding client expectations. If you get a vehicle in for an oil consumption concern, be sure to run an oil consumption test using the Engine Oil Consumption Test job aid in SIS.
We anticipate a service bulletin with complete troubleshooting and repair info in the near future. In the meantime, contact Tech Line if you need any help with troubleshooting. And if the vehicle is out of warranty, be sure to contact your DPSM for possible goodwill consideration.
© 2016 American Honda Motor Co., Inc. – All Rights Reserved
 

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#2 ·
2010−13 MDX

This finally put to rest the concern of some folks about the 07-09 consuming oil, AFAIK it has always been the 10 to 13 but some users claimed the 07 to 09 were equally affected.

Its sad because the 6 speedo is really appealing but by no means worth it If the engine is dead on water.
 
#3 ·
It will be interesting to see what the TSB recommends as a fix and if they stick to their typical claim that anything less than 1qt per 1,000 miles is normal. I'm not sure I've seen anyone's consumption get to that point around here.

I'm about to cross 90k miles and still not using any oil between changes. I run the MID to 0% using synthetic which is usually an interval of 9k-10k miles.
 
#5 ·
In some cases, the Alusil lining expands at different rates at low temps. This difference in expansion rates is what can contribute to cylinder scoring leading to oil loss. Couple that to owners that have only used Dino oil and the effect could be exasperated during these conditions.

Why doesn't this happen to all engines then? It would depend on how tight or loose the piston rings were adjusted to during install. Having looser piston rings could reduce the occurance of cylinder scoring during the different expansion but then you have other factors that may affect overall QC and intended specs of the engine.

These were observations based on other Alusil based engines but the j37 could also fall into this camp.
 
#6 ·
Has anyone gone through the dealership diag process and had their motor replaced goodwill?

Also, I'm assuming since it's piston ring / cylinder wall related, there's no easy repair process but has there been any follow up since the July 16 bulletin?
 
#8 ·
Has there been follow up since July 2016? One has to talk to the dealer to find out. It's probably an NDA in place between dealers and Honda/Acura NA.

I went to the dealer around this time frame about oil being on the spark plug threads and briefly mentioned oil consumption issue, the service manager told me to drive until the next OCI and come back to him to see how much oil had been consumed. I never went back. I'm currently at 5/8 oil loss at 1600 miles with 5w30 (1/4 - 1/3 loss using 5w20 @ 700 miles). Here's the dilemma, if the oil consumption is due to defective rings, I don't have $6000+ laying around to fix it since my 11 MDX is already 10K over the powertrain warranty. Goodwill? Highly doubted in my case since I don't do oil change at the dealer nor buy the car from them.

There are some 10-13 MDXes do not consume oil at all. I've seen 10-13 Adv parked next to my work place, the tailpipe is prestine shiny stainless steel, not even a speck of black spot. Mine is black soot residue.
 
#7 ·
I wonder what is the magic oil consumption number that would result in repair of the J37?

I've been holding steady at no more than 3/4 of quart of syn oil to stay atleast halfway above fill/full line on the dipstick every 8000-8500 mile oil change interval. I could be at around 1 to 1 1/4 quarts if I topped it off to the full line between oil changes.
 
#9 ·
I owned my 08 since new and it is now at 93K miles. No oil consumption at all as far as I can tell. I use synthetic oil only.
 
#10 ·
It's because you don't have the Alusil based cylinders that are found on '10+ models.
 
#14 ·
I have my guesses, but is only guesses. I don't want to spread anything I don't know...
 
#16 ·
I have two, 2011 MDX Elites. My black MDX 60,000km, does not consume oil using dyno oil, from oil change to oil change at the dealer I check the dipstick before I bring it in and its always still full, never an issue. My wifes White MDX 100,000km on the other hand consumes dyno oil like crazy! Been like this ever since we bought it.
Last few oil changes I had to put in 2 quarts each time between oil changes. I go and check the dip stick and its dry ~! Just had that oil change 3-4 months ago and already needed 1 1/2 quarts of oil to bring it back up to the fill mark on the dipstick. Few months after I had to add another quart. Seems like its getting slowly worse as the millage builds on the MDX. The MDX is parked in our garage and there are no oil leaks that we can see, its all from the engine consuming the oil. Furthermore, I found by adding the oil additive, No Smoke/seal.. (I forget the brand name) and using Quaker state high milage dyno oil it slows down the oil consumption! These last two oil changes I haven't been adding the No smoke/seal additive and its gotten a lot worse using up to 2 quarts between changes. I bought some more of the No smoke/seal additive and started using it again and want to see the difference. From my experience here its has to be the engine seals or the cylinder walls that are the issue as discussed in this thread. I haven't brought up the issue yet with the dealer. Next service I will have to mention this. Its out of warranty now, not sure they can or will even do much to fix the problem.
 
#20 ·
Replacing PCV won't fix it. I've tried.


I flushed the engine with BG No. 109 and started using 5W-30 grade oil. I'm down 3/4 qt at 1750 miles. It looks like I can get at least 2000/quart. I will be trying 0W-40 Euro Formula on my next OCI. The motor seems to like high viscosity oil. The motor is quiet, smooth, and throatier sound/feel. I do notice that the oil is reeked of gasoline odor. I don't know how much in percentage, but this may cause high blow-by conditions and increase oil consumption. If it is bad/stuck ring, damaged cylinder wall, or worn valve stems and guides, oil consumption should start the moment the new oil is in. I don't see this behavior. The oil consumption starts at 700mi (5w20) and 1000mi(5w30), and then progressively worsen. The behavior seems like fuel dilution is causing the problem. Could it be defective fuel injectors causing the engine to burn rich all the time? Maybe the type of gasoline use? I know the oil consumption starts worsen when I use Shell 93 V-Power exclusively. One of the benefit of using Shell V-Power is that it lubricate the cylinder wall, do you think high fuel dilution because of this?
 
#21 ·
I do notice that the oil is reeked of gasoline odor. I don't know how much in percentage, but this may cause high blow-by conditions and increase oil consumption.
Why not do an oil sample and see what's going on? blackstone-labs.com is who I use. $28-$38 for the test is worth it in my book and you might find some interesting results. I've posted my samples before (always squeaky clean at 9k-10k mile intervals) so you could compare to that.
 
#25 ·
For those losing oil already, there's nothing you can do to fix it except replacing your block IF you have cylinder scoring already. You can only slow down the consumption through various band aids.

Relatively easy way to check is to buy a $20 USB camera and inspect each cylinder wall through the spark plug holes. That way there's no guessing game.
 
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#26 ·
For those losing oil already, there's nothing you can do to fix it except replacing your block IF you have cylinder scoring already. You can only slow down the consumption through various band aids.

Relatively easy way to check is to buy a $20 USB camera and inspect each cylinder wall through the spark plug holes. That way there's no guessing game.
I'm not so sure that replacing the short block will resolve the problem. There are folks on acurazine site stated that they still had oil consumption after a new block. How do you explain Fishbum's wife mdx that had oil consumption issue since new? There seem to be a pattern from TL owners and myself that oil consumption is negligible or none at all up to certain mileage after oil changed. Then, oil consumption just fell off the cliff, rapidly. Maybe I should start my OCI at 1000 miles, then I can happily say "My MDX doesn't consume any oil." :smile2:
 
#31 ·
Fishbum/Skinny2: You two made a compelling note. You both don't experience oil consumption and use S mode all the time. It's been lingering in the back of my mind that "lugging engine" may be exacerbating the oil consumption problem. It's funny. I'm into two days of experimenting using S mode full time. In the name of fuel efficiency, the D mode operates in 5th gear at engine speed of 1200 RPM in city/suburban cruising, lugging engine big time. It is super smooth and never felt hesitation during accelerating, and that's why I never engaged S mode.
 
#33 ·
nzone, "lugging engine" may be exacerbating the oil consumption?
I highly doubt it, it has to be mechanical, seals, pistons scoring.. oil finding a way out.
 
#41 ·
In the spirit of trying to find out the exact cause, I copied this from one poster at acurazine regarding MDX oil consumption.


"I've owned, built and driven many several 3.7 powered vehicles. One thing I've learned with these motors is that they are very susceptible to oil consumption issues. Though I've never physically narrowed the issue down through diagnostics, I have (over time) done somewhat of a process of elimination. My conclusion is that it's not the rings or the PCV system. I feel like its the valve seals creating the issue. This is because I've noticed twice riding behind two 3.7 powered vehicles that when they are driven hard and then decelerated both in a higher gear and engine speed, the engine would release a puff of smoke once the engine speed increased again. I've noticed that the 3.7 has considerably more vacuum than all other Honda v6 engines. I believe this in conjunction with increased oil flow to the head after acceleration floods the valve train with oil then the increased vacuum draws the oil into the combustion chambers of which burns once fuel and ignition are reintroduced to the engine. "
 
#42 ·
^ agree, this would make sense to an extent as some folks (1-2 that I'v personally read) have had oil consumption after receiving a new shortblock. That means new AluSil liner and whatnot but the old heads with the old valve-train with the "bad valve stem seals".

Primary causes of failed valve stem seals is using oil for too long (oil that shears and cannot protect/lubricate) and running oil too hot. BMW's V8 is suffering from the same sort of issues that are much worse which makes many of them undriveable.

Another engine builder pointed out that the J37 has incredibly high side loads compared to the J30, J32 and J35 which is why going with AluSil Liners make sense for the 10+ models. However, with such high side loads you need an oil that is rated to handle those conditions.

BMW requires use of ACEA A3/B3 rated oil that has a high resistance to shear at high temps and load but used it for 15K which caused the failed valve stem seals. It's now been reduced to 10K miles and BMW thinks it'll negate the valve stem seal issues as the oil won't degrade to the point of causing failures.

Acura only requires 5W-20 oil on the 3.7L with an API certification and that's it. The ACEA A3/b3 rating oil is what this motor really needs to avoid oil consumption to start. With damaged AluSil liners, running an ACEA A3/B3 oil should immediately help with oil consumption by 1 quart over 4-5K miles.
 
#48 ·
Very interesting thread. My 2011 MDX just turned 80k and for the last 4-6 months I've been noticing oil consumption.
My wife drives it most of the time, and it's not until I check the oil or happen to notice a stored warning message that I have seen it.
I thought perhaps it was just a touch low, and the sensor is sensitive, but there are times I've checked and it was quite low.

This last oil change (I DIY) I paid extra attention to the level and the miles and also checked carefully for leaks. Within 1000 miles or so, it used more than a quart, to the point where a warning was stored.

I contacted the local dealer, who told me the first step is to come in for an oil change, and then return within 1000 miles for an "oil consumption test" which I think means they look at the dipstick :) If it is using, then Acura and I would have to approve a teardown. They also suggested I call Acura now, especially since my CPO warranty is up in November.

I will keep you updated but I can confirm that yes, the oil consumption problem is real.
 
#49 ·
Why is your CPO ends so soon? The powertrain warranty under CPO is extended to 7yr/100,000. If the original owner purchased sometimes in 2011, your powertrain warranty runs through sometimes in 2018 assuming the mileage doesn't exceed 100,000.

If you get oil warning light, the oil was probably less than 3 quarts remained. You're lucky that you have 7yr/100K under your belt. Others like me are stucked in the cold hard & dark space. Keep us posted on your situation with the dealer.
 
#50 ·
Actually you are right - I misread. My CPO is good for another 20k or until next November.
Acura has advised I will need to do the consumption test 3 times - I took this to mean 3 oil changes and return each 1000 miles after, but the service rep at the dealer says it's at 1000/2000/3000 miles to check levels. We'll see...
 
#51 ·
Honda/Acura solution...

November Update: This is the solution from Acura....The attached pdf is version 3.


If you get a vehicle in your shop for an oil consumption concern, be sure to run an oil consumption test using the [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Engine Oil Consumption Test [/FONT][/FONT]job aid in SIS. If the oil consumption is excessive, and you’re not noticing anything mechanically wrong, the piston rings may be clogged from carbon buildup.
To check for this, remove the pistons and see if the rings float freely on them. If they don’t, just replace the pistons and rings. There’s no need to replace the short block.
 

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#52 ·
"" If they don’t, just replace the pistons and rings. There’s no need to replace the short block. ""
Seems like economic damage control from Acura for Acura....
 
#53 ·
I don't buy the "stucked rings" either. In my case, there was hardly any oil consumption before 65K miles. Then suddenly it is closed to 1000/qt. China MDX is experiencing the same thing, people there are complaining excessive oil consumption as well. Acura is even more aggressive with their oil consumption guideline, 1000km/1L.
 
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