MrHeeltoe Intro

[Snow White]

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

I am HOPING to have a prototype on my MDX next week!

This is exciting

[alcatranz518]

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

I think it will be tough for me to justify making springs for non-Sports since I don't have one. I HOPE it doesn't mean 2 different applications! The part numbers for OEM are different, as are the general assemblies...I guess it would come down to who got more votes, mangeto- or non-. Of course if there is enough of either it could mean an application for both. We shall see.

Understandable, I can't seem to gage what kinda of ratio. I guess we will have to make a poll and let the number speak. Hey this IS election day, right?

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

I am well aware of Richie's design. Actually we sell them! For the TLs anyway. The long tubes are nice for torque but we have found they can induce a raspy tone on other cars. Also for optimal torque they need not be as long as he has them. WE prefer designs where the stock converter can be kept in place. In fact the existing ATLP design with shorter tubes has shown to produce more power above 4000 RPM, which might be a good advantage in some applications.

I am very familiar with ATLP as I have been around the block quite a few times. You and Richie/ RV6 both make very very nice products, it would be hard to decide between. When I first installed my exhaust, I was all for keeping the secondary cat, but as time has gone on I decided I actually would prefer to not have it. I started to design my own like I mentioned earlier, until I noticed Richie was becoming active in mfg it again. So with you in the picture too this should make for nice high quality choices. Either way, and I think I speak for everyone I am glad too see not 1 but 2 high quality aftermarket manufacturers showing interest in parts for us.

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

For the muffler section I see little advantage in changing out the resonators. Rather we are going to do from the rear of the resonators. The middle section on this system is designed fairly well as is to be honest and those resonators are not restrictive. My changing mufflers we are more looking for increased sound and better look. The resonators will keep the sound in check so as not to be obnoxious.

I agree, which was why I also stayed with OE resonators. I love the tone with the 14814 magnaflow mufflers with them (it just needs that lil extra the j-pipe and eliminated secondary cat will provide). I just felt the piping needed enlarged so I swapped the pipes out for 2.25 while keeping the resonators. Eliminating them will provide the "bees" and that would make me nuts.

BTW welcome aboard and I look forward to seeing some great products in the future!

[MrHeeltoe]

Thanks for the positive responses, folks!

[MAC-n-bk-of-AC]

I'm in for a J-pipe of anyother exhaust options for a 2007-09 MDX

[r-americagroup]

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

...wow, the MDX brakes a lot better now! We will be offering this kit on our site for sale soon by the way.

Interested in the kit. Couple of questions:

• when you communicate "brakes a lot better now!" are you meaning in general feel or shorter stopping differences?
• have you experienced abnormal amounts of brake dust?
• will you also be offering slotted rear rotors?

In no way am I disbelieving that the MDX brakes better now but would like to quantify (in some respect) the performance improvement. To me, braking is one of Honda's sore spots in almost every vehicle they make and I'd like to improve the performance of ours and the cars my business carries.

[MrHeeltoe]

I mean the FEEL is better, and definitely there is less vibration from the pads overheating. Overall much more confident braking. We can say this knowing the stock setup was relatively easy to upset in that it would get hot easily and start shaking. After towing for 1100 miles the new brakes never overheated or got squirmy, even on the 6% downgrade portions. I completely agree that Honda makes great cars and dumbs them down with pathetic tires and brakes for some insane reason or another. The packages we put together are specifically intended to add what is needed to these vehicles.

Quantifying it is tough. Is it shorter stopping 60 to 0? I have no idea, and frankly that is more dependent on tires than brakes anyway. What you can do is more even more aggressive stops in succession with no degradation in performance like you get with stock, and less wear.

Dust seems relatively the same as stock. Actually, the RB rotors wear pretty slow and normally this is where you see a lot of dust: rotor wear.

Rear rotors are not likely in the cards, regrettably. However note there is about a ZERO functional improvement in changing the rear rotors at all, so it is not much of a concern really.

[r-americagroup]

Thank for the thorough reply. Once we wear down the stock pads, I'll be a customer. I've upgraded the stock setup on almost every single Honda I've owned and I'm a believer in the slotted rotors and stainless brake lines. Even our company F-250 wears these.

Yes, shorter stopping distances are more a function of stickier tires but when those aren't a variable then pads, lines, and rotors are and would show in any testing.

For just discussion purposes, I politely disagree about slotted rear rotor effectiveness. I've found (YMMV) that slotted rear rotors provide marginally better initial bite: a noticeable difference than exclusively installing slotted fronts. Albeit, this is at the track where minor changes can be exponentially felt.

As an additional data point, because of the MDX's higher rear weight bias than typical SUVs (56/44), installing ventilated (instead of the solid rear disk) may help with even better performance when towing or repeatedly braking.

[Ishqkapujari]

what about coilovers? lol maybe something by Tein?

[Tyler]

I have slotted/drilled rotors all the way around on my mdx, stopping speed is incredibly greater, the tires have somewhat to do with it too. When I switch between my 03(which has centric rotors and pads), and 02 I notice a huge difference.

[MrHeeltoe]

I have to stick with my guns. The rotors with slots and/or drills do nothing for bite or friction or anything like that. The characteristics of the braking is almost completely dictated by the pad compound. The rotors need to be of an appropriate size, mass, and material to cope with and shed the heat generated by the pads gripping them, but other than that whatever dress-up is on the rotor face does not help the braking to any noticeable degree.

New rotors usually get the credit for improved braking because they are the most obvious change and the more costly component, but the pads do pretty much all the heavy lifting.

This is especially true where the rear is concerned. The weight bias does not mean as much as the front/rear braking bias. It is hard to know how each car is designed but in general the front does the majority of the braking versus the rear, and therefore more heat is generated there, and therefore a front rotor upgrade is significantly more beneficial than a rear. Improvements in performance noted on the street with a rear rotor slot or drilled face is largely if not completely placebo (or you happened to change the pads as well, and that is really where the benefit came from).

We upgrade the rotors for the benefit of the harder material which resists wear and the curved-vane design that is much more efficient at dissipating heat. The slots look cool.

[r-americagroup]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I have slotted/drilled rotors all the way around on my mdx, stopping speed is incredibly greater, the tires have somewhat to do with it too. When I switch between my 03(which has centric rotors and pads), and 02 I notice a huge difference.

Tires are going to be the biggest variable so if you changed tires that is likely the difference. What brand slotted and drilled rotors are you using and what which are on which end?

I've seen some ventilated rear rotors that replace the solid rear rotor but I haven't seen any testing on reduction of rear rotor temps.

[r-americagroup]

Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe

I have to stick with my guns. The rotors with slots and/or drills do nothing for bite or friction or anything like that.

That's factually incorrect. Drilled or slotted rotors do provide more bite in addition to other significant advantages. Manufacturers of the rotors and the SAE have a plethora of statistical evidence and it makes for some really good reading.

However, I do realize that this is your thread and I don't wish to muddy it up.

[symmetrical]

Originally Posted by r-americagroup

That's factually incorrect. Drilled or slotted rotors do provide more bite in addition to other significant advantages. Manufacturers of the rotors and the SAE have a plethora of statistical evidence and it makes for some really good reading.

However, I do realize that this is your thread and I don't wish to muddy it up.

I don't think you would be muddying it up if you posted some links to said findings for informative purposes.

I always thought slotted or drilled rotors is to reduce heat thus reducing brake fade for track cars.

And from personal experience, I always found pads to improve braking force much more drastically. Going from some stock OEMs to Hawk Blues that needed warming up made a huge difference.

[MrHeeltoe]

Originally Posted by r-americagroup

That's factually incorrect. Drilled or slotted rotors do provide more bite in addition to other significant advantages. Manufacturers of the rotors and the SAE have a plethora of statistical evidence and it makes for some really good reading.

However, I do realize that this is your thread and I don't wish to muddy it up.

I'll rephrase my statement a bit, see if we can come closer to the middle somewhere.

Drills and slots to have theoretical and performance advantages.
- weight savings
- more airflow for better cooling
- more surface area for better heat dissipation
- broken surface allows off-gas and dust to evacuate (the only possible avenue I could see bite increasing at all, but minimally if at all)

This is true.


However the benefits are not likely in any practical way to translate to a street car, or even a race car driven on the street. The entire package needs to work together anyway. In my experience, to justify the need for these features one would need to be pushing some really high end pads and then seeing a need for additional cooling or degassing. Even then not all drilled rotors are the same. Most that you see for sale are plain rotors with holes in them, where the drill pattern is not strategically placed or done with specialized equipment, making the holes good places for cracks to start than anything else.

On the street the weight advantage is not going to amount to much improvement without a serious diet on the whole car. Any cooling advantage will be moot since sufficient heat will not be built up, and, if it is, the pads will go off long before the rotors will provide a cure. Even the dust/gas evacuation is not really something I have seen be THAT advantageous.

So yes, improvements can be made when an entire package works together, but simply changing plain rotors for slotted and/or drilled ones is going to get more looks than performance advantage. Even if you believe the stock rotors warp too easy, I challenge this with the pads being the root cause anyway. Brakes and their impact on your driving ability is mostly in the pads.