Software Update Releasing Soon-Torque Converter

[desmonsm]

Originally Posted by rabit

Got my 09 for the update today and told the service guy about the mileage issue. He had not heard about it and I showed him this thread. There was another customer with a '12 who said his mileage has dropped since he did the update for his 2012 MDX (I know they had a separate software update but it appears same issue).
I just filled up after this afternoon, will see how much of a pig it's going to be.
I was advised to call Acura customer relation and complain to them if there is this issue. They MUST do something about it.

What TSB applies to '10-'12 models? The 12-029 TSB only applies to '07-'09 models.

[carli123]

I had the update done last week and drove the car a bit over 800 miles over the long weekend. No appreciable change in mpg for me. I'm not the primary driver of the car but drive it enough (we bought new in 02/07, 68k miles now) to know the car well. I notice no difference in the power of the car, it's not making more power or getting to freeway speed any faster. I do notice a subtle difference in when the torque converter locks up around town, it doesn't lock up at low speed and turn 1,200 rpm like it did (which pulled the engine down to a rumble). When the converter locks it feels like a shift, or half shift. The other difference is when pulling grades, it seems more willing to first unlock the converter but remain in 5th gear rather than hanging locked in 5th then screaming in 4th to regain speed (doing this over and over). Overall I would say the new programming is more appropriate for the car, seems "normal" now.

[sweetadad]

I think i might be the only person who has noticed a change in RPM at cruising speeds.

Previously, the X used to turn at 2000 rpm @ 115kmph. Now it turns at 2100 rpm 115kmph. So thats a 5% increment. Anyone else see the same?

I normally used to pick 115kmph as a safe cruising speed to avoid the cops and I remember it being at a convenient to remember 2000rpm.

[gitchies]

Originally Posted by sweetadad

I think i might be the only person who has noticed a change in RPM at cruising speeds.

Previously, the X used to turn at 2000 rpm @ 115kmph. Now it turns at 2100 rpm 115kmph. So thats a 5% increment. Anyone else see the same?

I normally used to pick 115kmph as a safe cruising speed to avoid the cops and I remember it being at a convenient to remember 2000rpm.

yes, i've noticed that it cruises at a higher rpm...on both highway and city...
on the highway, at about 120kph, used to be 1900-2000 rpm...now seems like 2100-2200rpm
in the city, cruising at 60kpm, used to be like 1400rpm...now seems around 1700rpm
at 80kph. its stuck longer in 4th gear around 1800-1900 rpm.
This is probably why the gas isn't as good....?

[ken88]

So why did Acura raise the RPM level to cruise at the same speed? Is that why the engine feels more sluggish and noisier? So why the software update then? I don't get it???

[gitchies]

I wish I knew.....I think raising the rpm so it wouldn't jutter at a lower speed, too earlier of a shift point previously...so now the longer gear hold won't cause it to jutter? I have no idea...just guesses...

[gogozy]

Originally Posted by gitchies

yes, i've noticed that it cruises at a higher rpm...on both highway and city...
on the highway, at about 120kph, used to be 1900-2000 rpm...now seems like 2100-2200rpm
in the city, cruising at 60kpm, used to be like 1400rpm...now seems around 1700rpm
at 80kph. its stuck longer in 4th gear around 1800-1900 rpm.
This is probably why the gas isn't as good....?

i noticed that, but I did not write down or record the old value so i only "guess" it was the case... thanks for report so i was not puffing
do you mean cruise control when you say "cruise" if the speed is the same and rpm shall be the same, since gear ratios are fixed, the 1-4 can move around depend on the gear PCM select, but for highway speed at 120kph, I guess it's on 5th, and probably TQ did not locked when you are looking at it so there is a rpm differences, also the TQ would locked til ATF are fully warm up, so it may take some distance in the winter. I suspect the TQ lock point are changed to a higher point; so it does not lock at 1200 or 1500rpm like before.
we did a long trip 2 weeks ago for ~450km drive on highway, and average 9.5km/L, which is almost spot on with old value. no complaining, since my TSX also get similar FE on highway, maybe a little better. i did not record the city value because there is too much variable, traffic jams, traffic jams and more traffic jams (even when there is no traffic on the street) and short trip are norm of my MDX in city, and the city FE is always terrible.
I find this software update interesting, because if this is hurting FE, then it's affecting Honda's CAFE rating, but Honda probably received # of report of failing AT unit and was alarmed.. one Honda tech told me the lock up point shift point was "widen, to address the over heating on the TQ. if this is the issue, then Honda likely observed these failed TQ have sign of overheating. but I am no expert..

[Dominik-X]

Originally Posted by gitchies

I wish I knew.....I think raising the rpm so it wouldn't jutter at a lower speed, too earlier of a shift point previously...so now the longer gear hold won't cause it to jutter? I have no idea...just guesses...

That was a very good guess. The judder usually happens as the rpm drops.

[rabit]

Originally Posted by gitchies

yes, i've noticed that it cruises at a higher rpm...on both highway and city...
on the highway, at about 120kph, used to be 1900-2000 rpm...now seems like 2100-2200rpm
in the city, cruising at 60kpm, used to be like 1400rpm...now seems around 1700rpm
at 80kph. its stuck longer in 4th gear around 1800-1900 rpm.
This is probably why the gas isn't as good....?

I don't understand how this could happen: if you are running on the same gear at the same speed and the same road/slip then higher RPM produces more speed unless the extra power generated is "consumed" somewhere else (transmission?!). Again, this somehow doesn't make sense to me (not that you guys are making this up...)

I have been watching the rpm closely and how it changes gears. My feeling has been that it runs on higher RPM mostly because it changes to 5th gear less frequently i.e. mostly runs on the 4th. Before the update it was almost always in the 5t gear when cruising but now I've noticed it stays in the 4th. That could explain higher rpm and gas consumption. Overall it might up-shift at higher rpm's.

[kokerj]

Originally Posted by sweetadad

Yes, I know that. T-mdx said he got poor mileage with 75 miles of highly driving.

sorry - I was doing a quick reply to an earlier post, so it looked like I was responding to yours.

[aucjmo22]

Ken88, i just received my update while going in for regular servicing. I've only noted that the X is more responsive and the drive is smoother - it doesn't feel sluggish any longer. I don't know how else to explain it but I like how the vehicle now responds. I haven't noted the gas consumption issue yet as it's only been 2 days since the upgrade; and I haven't driven at cruising speeds to monitor the average gas consumption. I'm usually at 10.8 mpg on highway driving, averaging at speeds of 120 Kilometers per hour. In the city, we usually fill up once every 2 weeks, on average. I'll see how it performs with the upgrade. I can see how the X becomes a pig due to the increase in RMPs.

[pfarmer]

I have a 2007 MDX with 104K miles and recently began experiencing this shudder/judder problem -- this is probably coincidence, but it first became noticeable right after I had the timing belt replaced (by a reputable independent Acura mechanic).

When I take my foot off the gas, I get a shudder. Also, I get the 'rumble strip' effect when driving steady at 20mph. Just like the problem that was reported for 2005-06 models (see this thread).

I had my MDX to the dealer last week for a software update for the catalytic converter and mentioned the problem. They said they had just gotten notice of a software update for the transmission that they thought might address the problem.

This was SB 12-029. (I hadn't gotten the letter on this from Acura.)

The software fix was applied and the warranty on the torque converter was extended to 105K miles. I hit that limit in exactly 989 miles.

Unfortunately, I am still having the same issues, so I'm bringing the car back to them and expect to have the torque converter replaced.

It's like déjà vu all over again... I had a 2001 MDX whose tranny went out at 109K miles. Acura did not come through for me that time -- refused to help out on a tranny replacement. I ended up trading in the car (taking a hit in doing so) and getting the new model. The 2007 has been a dream car, no problems whatsoever -- until now.

This time I hope to stay one step ahead of the problem. Will keep you posted on what transpires.

[gogozy]

pfarmer, sorry to hear that, I hope the your MDX issue get address this time.
I just received the letter for software update for 09 MDX. the letter says the TQ need to be replace, if there is judder after the update. it seems the software was to address or prevent some torque convertor issue (judging from the letter). if so, there must have been above norm # of TQ failure. anyone know if TL, Odyssey, or Accord with 5AT were also affected by this update? thanks.

[pfarmer]

Originally Posted by pfarmer

I have a 2007 MDX with 104K miles and recently began experiencing this shudder/judder problem -- this is probably coincidence, but it first became noticeable right after I had the timing belt replaced (by a reputable independent Acura mechanic).

When I take my foot off the gas, I get a shudder. Also, I get the 'rumble strip' effect when driving steady at 20mph. Just like the problem that was reported for 2005-06 models (see this thread).

I had my MDX to the dealer last week for a software update for the catalytic converter and mentioned the problem. They said they had just gotten notice of a software update for the transmission that they thought might address the problem.

This was SB 12-029. (I hadn't gotten the letter on this from Acura.)

The software fix was applied and the warranty on the torque converter was extended to 105K miles. I hit that limit in exactly 989 miles.

Unfortunately, I am still having the same issues, so I'm bringing the car back to them and expect to have the torque converter replaced.

It's like déjà vu all over again... I had a 2001 MDX whose tranny went out at 109K miles. Acura did not come through for me that time -- refused to help out on a tranny replacement. I ended up trading in the car (taking a hit in doing so) and getting the new model. The 2007 has been a dream car, no problems whatsoever -- until now.

This time I hope to stay one step ahead of the problem. Will keep you posted on what transpires.

Update: I brought my 2007 MDX back to the dealer 2 days ago and demonstrated the problem on a road test with a technician. (The problem is a mild "jolt" or "shudder" that's felt when I take my foot off the gas after the car has been cruising at certain speeds such as 22mph or 57mph.) The technician felt it and regarded the torque converter as the prime suspect. However, before authorizing warranty work, Acura corporate requires a scan from their diagnostic gizmo while the problem is experienced on road test, so they asked me to leave the car with them so that they could scan it.

They did, submitted the results to Acura, and were told the scan was "normal." Therefore wouldn't authorize torque converter replacement.

The dealer let me know the situation and suggested that I come back so they could redo the scan with me behind the wheel. So that's what I did this afternoon.

After resubmitting it, Acura corporate still said that the scan wasn't definitive, but the service advisor at Hopkins Acura, Redwood City, CA, went to bat for me. She told them, "Look, we've had two technicians who've felt the problem. No matter what the scan shows, there's a problem here, and it needs to get taken care of. You just say no, but don't think it's going to stop here."

And Acura yielded.

So my torque converter will be replaced as soon as the part comes in. :yes:

This is a relief, as the car now has 104,111 miles on it -- less than 900 to go before the 105K warranty on the torque converter expires. Maybe I won't have to revisit my nightmare of 6 years ago when the tranny went out on my 2001 MDX and Acura refused to help me out.

I just hope this takes care of things and I have a few trouble-free years ahead!

[pfarmer]

Originally Posted by gogozy

anyone know if TL, Odyssey, or Accord with 5AT were also affected by this update? thanks.

Yes, an identically numbered service bulletin was issued for the 2005-06 Odyssey. Here's a link to that SB.