Dealer smoking crack-exhaust shield rattle

[speedlaw]

So, the 2000 rpm/30 mph "graunch" was diagnosed by my local dealer. I had thought it the pulley tsb, but they disagreed, and said it was the catalyst shield on the front cat.

the car has 58k, out of warranty (2008 Tech).

They tell me it is a $685 job !!!

I ask for warranty consideration. Acura agrees to cover some of it, so the price drops to $469.

A quick web seach shows this to be a common Honda problem,usually fixed by removing the cover or using a hose clamp to affix it.

I will be working on the last two ideas instead of a $500 job. I am quite amazed that it costs so much to fix a shield,and at 58k, it is not covered, even if I am marginally out of warranty.

[JL_SS]

Originally Posted by speedlaw

So, the 2000 rpm/30 mph "graunch" was diagnosed by my local dealer. I had thought it the pulley tsb, but they disagreed, and said it was the catalyst shield on the front cat.

the car has 58k, out of warranty (2008 Tech).

They tell me it is a $685 job !!!

I ask for warranty consideration. Acura agrees to cover some of it, so the price drops to $469.

A quick web seach shows this to be a common Honda problem,usually fixed by removing the cover or using a hose clamp to affix it.

I will be working on the last two ideas instead of a $500 job. I am quite amazed that it costs so much to fix a shield,and at 58k, it is not covered, even if I am marginally out of warranty.

It is a common problem, usually above 100K miles though. 58K is way early for it to happen, especially on a 2008. I'd ask to speak with the local Acura district service and parts manager to complain and ask for the entire cost to be paid if they want you as a repeat loyal customer.

[Bill_de]

It would be nice if Acura covered it.

But you wouldn't pay them $58,000 for a $50,000 car and say that you were only marginally overpaying.

You may think you have a special case, and everyone feels the same way about their problems. You are asking Acura to give 'everybody' a 58,000 mile warranty. They could do that, but it would have to be reflected in the price of the car.

If a clamp will solve the problem that's the route I'd go. The dealer maybe should have offered that as an option.

[speedlaw]

Originally Posted by Bill_de

It would be nice if Acura covered it.

But you wouldn't pay them $58,000 for a $50,000 car and say that you were only marginally overpaying.

You may think you have a special case, and everyone feels the same way about their problems. You are asking Acura to give 'everybody' a 58,000 mile warranty. They could do that, but it would have to be reflected in the price of the car.

If a clamp will solve the problem that's the route I'd go. The dealer maybe should have offered that as an option.

Well, I did buy a quality vehicle, not a cheap one. Something like this I didn't "wear out", or abuse. I can only compare this experience to SAAB and BMW. I had issues the same bit out of warranty, and they each covered it, SAAB being a heater control, and BMW being two sets of coils, one at 60k and one at 95k. I admit I was shocked when BMW picked up coil set #2, but when one goes they replace all of them. This contrasts with Acura... the three trips to the same dealer, where they replaced no coils, then one, then two coils, and repeatedly refused to (IN warranty mileage) replace the whole set. It still wasn't right, and I risked the $ buying new plugs and coils prior to buying out at the end of the lease to see if the erratic idle would go away. The dealer said if there is no "check engine" then there is no issue. When I replaced the plugs and coils, two things...the car went back to being a sewing machine, and the spark plugs they claimed (and charged Acura for) were replaced, weren't. They also only replaced the easy to get to front three coils, where it was really one of the back ones which was bad-but they didn't reach around...they did claim to replace two "back cylinder" coils on the work order. Nice. Now that the truck again ran smoothly, I was confident enough to buy it....but they should have replaced all the coils the first run out and this customer would not be ranting on an interweb BB......nor should I have had to have this "choice", or wrench a car still under warranty at the time.

I agree that a company has to draw a line somewhere, and I will have some fun with hose clamps. Still, I have learned first hand that this dealer, at least, won't fix simple problems under warranty.

When the time comes, and my current car (MDX is mom's car) blows up/wears out/is hit in traffic, a 2003 3 series with 255k, and I HAVE to get a new one, there are two primary choices....a TL or another 3. The 3 is more $, but in my experience, they will stand behind it where Acura has not. Not replacing a bad coil or a $10 heat shield is penny wise and pound foolish.

Off to the hardware store for clamps......

[Drifter]

Very common problem wherever winter road salt prematurely eats thru the tack welds in the shields. It's so easy to just tear them off or clamp them down - whatever works best. Your dealer was definitely taking advantage of you. Mine asked me if above was OK and didn't even charge me for it.

[JL_SS]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Very common problem wherever winter road salt prematurely eats thru the tack welds in the shields. It's so easy to just tear them off or clamp them down - whatever works best. Your dealer was definitely taking advantage of you. Mine asked me if above was OK and didn't even charge me for it.

A 2008 with 58K. That is very early for shield weld failure, even with winter road salt. Acura should have covered it. In MA, with tons of salt, ours have gone to at least 5yrs/100K on 6 different Honda/Acura vehicles.

[bear1906]

Did you bring this up to them before you hit 50K? If so, and they didnt diagnose, then you have a stronger case.

[mudbelly]

Graunch is a great description of my noise - also an 08 Tech just over 60K. I'm gonna take a peek under there and see how hard removal may be. Are there any concerns with something overheating doing this (its gotta be there for some reason)? Also, does it mean that its not anything to really be concerned about - just a noise?

[nsxtasy]

The purpose of the heat shield is to protect the area under the car from the heat of the exhaust system. If you remove it entirely, just make sure you don't ever park in areas of tall grass.

[speedlaw]

Well, after an hour or so under the car, one or two curse words, and a $3.85 hose clamp, the problem is fixed.

The heat shield on the front bank was beginning to rust, notably around the bolts where it mounts to the Cat. Honda uses small bolts, and they don't appear to be stainless. I live in NY, so I see road salt a lot-they clearly cheap-ed out on these four bolts. The rest of the exhaust system looks almost new, so clearly there is stainless steel there...just not on the four small nuts and bolts that hold the shield. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the accountant who saved five cents per unit and wish him bedbugs on his next business trip.

You will need to raise the truck slightly. I used a Curb on my street. You will need some supplemental lighting, a stubby flat head screwdriver, a short wrench for the hose clamp nut, and some patience.

The cat is located just under the exhaust manifold. You cannot reach it from the top. Get under, and look around. You will see that Honda made way for replacement of the O2 sensors, but there is almost no room for anything else.

Get a large hose clamp, and work it around the Cat. Avoid the 02 sensor at the bottom (easy to avoid), and get the clamp around the cat heat shields. Wear glasses as the rust from the shield will drop on you as you work and the sight lines are limited so the rust drops straight down where your face is.

The hardest part will be getting the hose clamp snugged, as you have no room for hands or tools. Accept that you are doing the job in 1/8 turn increments and take your time. A shortie 8mm wrench was key here.

The cat shield is ribbed, so it was fairly easy to get it centered. Once snug, I tightened it up as best possible...it's not like there is torque setting for this job.

Graunch gone....I can now drive around subdivisions at 30 mph, turning 2000 rpm, without sounding like I'm about to puke large parts instantly. (really strange, that something which won't affect driving, safety, or the car itself, sounds so horrible)

Sorry, no photos.

I can see how this is a $600.00 job if you were to disassemble the whole front of the car to get to the cat to replace the two cent bolts. Maybe a better solution for this $50,000.00 truck would be for Honda to spec a stainless bolt and higher quality metal in the heat shield.......

[Bill_de]

Great news!

[mach mdx]

Originally Posted by speedlaw

Well, after an hour or so under the car, one or two curse words, and a $3.85 hose clamp, the problem is fixed.

The heat shield on the front bank was beginning to rust, notably around the bolts where it mounts to the Cat. Honda uses small bolts, and they don't appear to be stainless. I live in NY, so I see road salt a lot-they clearly cheap-ed out on these four bolts. The rest of the exhaust system looks almost new, so clearly there is stainless steel there...just not on the four small nuts and bolts that hold the shield. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the accountant who saved five cents per unit and wish him bedbugs on his next business trip.

You will need to raise the truck slightly. I used a Curb on my street. You will need some supplemental lighting, a stubby flat head screwdriver, a short wrench for the hose clamp nut, and some patience.

The cat is located just under the exhaust manifold. You cannot reach it from the top. Get under, and look around. You will see that Honda made way for replacement of the O2 sensors, but there is almost no room for anything else.

Get a large hose clamp, and work it around the Cat. Avoid the 02 sensor at the bottom (easy to avoid), and get the clamp around the cat heat shields. Wear glasses as the rust from the shield will drop on you as you work and the sight lines are limited so the rust drops straight down where your face is.

The hardest part will be getting the hose clamp snugged, as you have no room for hands or tools. Accept that you are doing the job in 1/8 turn increments and take your time. A shortie 8mm wrench was key here.

The cat shield is ribbed, so it was fairly easy to get it centered. Once snug, I tightened it up as best possible...it's not like there is torque setting for this job.

Graunch gone....I can now drive around subdivisions at 30 mph, turning 2000 rpm, without sounding like I'm about to puke large parts instantly. (really strange, that something which won't affect driving, safety, or the car itself, sounds so horrible)

Sorry, no photos.

I can see how this is a $600.00 job if you were to disassemble the whole front of the car to get to the cat to replace the two cent bolts. Maybe a better solution for this $50,000.00 truck would be for Honda to spec a stainless bolt and higher quality metal in the heat shield.......

The hose clamp you are talking about. I'm imaging like a 4" adjustable stainless steel clamp?

Speedlaw, where in NY do you live?

[matt03acura]

I got the same issue with my 03 at 130,000 miles. Gonna have my local indy shop do the quick fix. Thanks for the info..

[mach mdx]

Here's what i did. I told plumbing coupling hose clamp. A 4" and 1-1/2" together and tighten it. Two of the four bolts where rusted. It was more like the heat shield was rusted off the bolts.

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[CODOG2]

resurrected!

Does the 'graunch' apply to first gen too? My 04 has been making a terrible rattle underneath the car at not only low speeds, light load, but also on the highway. This probably started a year ago when my car had 120k.

Someone said the attached tsb applied - but it is the heat shield for the intermediate shaft heat shield (why would this need a heat shield anyway?)